Employer dismissed me, now wants to hear grievance. Please help!

[Tootiredtosleep]

So, I raised a grievance with my employer back in July this year, and a further grievance re a protected characteristic.

They acknowledged the first grievance and invited me to a meeting with the Director (who the grievance was about - it's a small company - no HR). I asked for a reasonable adjustment, could it be held in written form and this was not acknowledged.

The further grievance re the protected characteristic (race), was never acknowledged by the company.

However, they invited me to a disciplinary whilst I was on sick leave, for gross misconduct/fraud. I was subsequently sacked. They were wrong on all counts of what they accused me of. However, for one small thing I had no evidence, and it was upheld as 'reasonable belief'.

The last correspondence from them re my grievances was 27th July 2024.

I have now filed a case at the tribunal for race discrimination, sex discrimination (they contacted my ex husband to find out information) victimisation (raising disciplinary after I done a protected act) and failure to provide an employment contract.

All negotiations with ACAS have failed. They won't communicate.

However, some 5 months since they acknowledged my grievance, they have now written to me to say they would like to hear these grievances and want me to attend a meeting. This is one month after I have been dismissed. It wasn't mentioned in my dismissal letter.

I know I need to show the tribunal that I have exhausted the grievance procedure, but surely contacting me after all this time, when I am no longer an employee is wrong? Can anyone advise?

I have tried to keep it brief, but can provide further details.

OP it doesn't matter that she doesn't know your former employer and what they were like. What she knows is the law, how it's applied and how it's relevant to you and your case.

She won't be advising you to go because she thinks you should just put up with an unpleasant conversation. She'll be advising you to go because legally she knows it is likely to be another piece of useful evidence when you are in the tribunal hearing.

Your solicitor has the full details of your case and will be advising you with your prospects of success in mind. I would be following her advice over that of strangers on the internet, however well intentioned. None of us know your case details, and even those posters who are legally qualified are not going to give you the detailed and specific advice you need because you aren't their client.

Good luck whatever you decide to do. I hope you manage to get the result that you want and be able to recover from what sounds like a very unpleasant employer.

Op your solicitor and ACAS have bought told you to engage with the process regardless of timings.
Why not tell your former employer due to the ongoing distress caused by their previous failure to progress your grievance you wish to submit your statement in writing? That should be permitted and demonstrates a willingness to engage.

OP, FWIW, some further thoughts - apologies for the length.

From their reply and future actions you will hopefully begin to understand whether the ex-employer is determined to be difficult and grind you down or whether they will take a commercial, pragmatic view and will settle in your favour if they think you have good advice and will be strong. It's a small firm so the former is possible unless there is someone senior to the difficult person. Their letter seeking to tidy their risk regarding the faulty grievance perhaps indicates they have sensible advice which could be helpful. If they are engaging solicitors rather than getting advice from a HR bureau then the costs of advice will hopefully encourage them to settle provided they think you have good advice and appear strong. Hence the reply that implies you have good advice, rather than declining to attend or attending and appearing so damaged by their actions that you might not last the course or accept an inadequate offer.

It might be worth giving some thought to your paralegal's advice in future as throwing you into that meeting when you feel how you say you feel doesn't feel right.

Read your ex-employer's reply. If they invite you to attend again then if you feel up to it, ask for several days and times a few weeks ahead so you can seek advice and ask for an agenda, questions in writing that might be answered in correspondence and their attendees There is no expectation you should immediately attend and they will not appear reasonable or acting in good faith. Similarly if their representative is your abuser then that might provide an avenue for you.

You'll want to consider what's least worst for future next steps. Attending a meeting if you will struggle sends bad signals as would sending a reply that says you are too distressed. Take a view when you see their reply.

How did you leave things with ACAS?

You'll understand this better than me but are they FCA regulated or regulated by another body? They've weaponised improper allegations of fraud so you'll need to firmly close that off as well as address future references and industry reputation.

At the right time, their regulator might provide some leverage. Have you considered having your DH/another family member contact the regulator quickly as a reply might take time and ask something along the following -

What is the Regulator's position regarding a regulated body using improper allegations of fraud to victimise whistleblowers and victims of racial discrimination? What actions has the Regulator taken in these circumstances and what action would they take?

Your ex-employer may think they hold the cards concerning your future in the industry and your need for references. Depending on what the Regulator says and certainly not now but at the right time, your ex-employer may need to understand the consequences of having victimised a whistleblower and regulatory action.

Try to enjoy Christmas and New Year.

Good luck.

@Zilla1 thank you so much, for this well thought out detailed reply. It's extremely helpful.

Unfortunately, no regulator. It's an owner managed business, one director. I was the only employee. The rest were sub contractors. It's just him. He did appoint a HR firm to do the disciplinary, and subsequent dismissal. As it's reasonable belief, and no evidence, there's no way I can overturn it.

The same HR firm (it's a one man band, he knows through a friend) is the one now attempting to hear the grievance. The same person that sacked me.

They only brought this 'fraud' to light after I raised the grievance re race and sex discrimination. This is the crux of my victimisation claim.

I have supportive family, and with their advice, the solicitor and your good self, I am going to write directly to my employer and engage. But request the HR guy is removed from the equation, as he isn't neutral. I'll ask for a full agenda, full attendees and suggest some dates later down the line.

They haven't received notification of the ET1 that was filed due to delays at the tribunal office. So, they don't have the full details of the claim. They just know it's been lodged through ACAS negotiations to settle.

Hope you had a restful Christmas and New Year, OP and are in a better place to defend your corner.

Good luck.

@Zilla1 thank you for thinking about me. I did, and I hope you did too.

I wrote to the HR company with some dates to hear the grievances, and asked for the meeting to be recorded. I sent this on 20th December and to date have not had a response. The dates I suggested have passed, so goodness knows what their intentions are.

Still in limbo, but the tribunal papers should be sent this week.

I think that sounds positive, OP.

If they were hoping to see if you were too broken to fight or you would give them an easy way to say to the tribunal that you'd not exhausted the grievance process in this unusual situation so any compensation could be discounted or you had poor advice or you might truck up if they yanked your chain at short notice then you fronted them up in a correct way.

Hopefully this will either:

encourage them to settle and enable you to close off the reputational claim they made so you are protected when future employers seek a reference (you'll need to have copper-bottomed protection there) and offer an attractive settlement; or

it means that you'll get to the tribunal having put to bed this 'exhausting the grievance process' risk and will look reasonable to the Tribunal.

If you get to the Tribunal then you'll hopefully have the opportunity to indicate their claim of dishonesty and their handling of the 'exhausting the grievance process' [yank your chain, try to get you in at short notice then not respond to your reasonable response] all continue to form a pattern of unreasonable behaviour by the employer. IME often the tribunals have sensible people who have enough life experience to see the wood for the trees.

One point - are you certain they've never treated any previous employee in a similar way or mis-handled a grievance over the years before you arrived?

Good luck.

Sounds like they are in breach of their own grievance policy too, regarding timescales and what is reasonable. Good luck OP

@Zilla1 they were taken to tribunal before for sacking someone when they informed them were pregnant (I say ‘they’ but it’s a small - extremely profitable - company). They settled, but went the whole way to tribunal before offering a settlement the day before the hearing.

They made up all sorts of stuff to sack me with. I had proof that it was all lies, except for one small thing, where I had nothing in writing, so it was upheld as ‘reasonable belief’. He and I both know it’s not true, but there’s nothing I can do about it. I’ve exhausted all the options.

I’m hoping you are correct re the settlement. I think when they get the tribunal papers this will push them into action.

I also strongly suspect the HR guy they hired to do the grievance and disciplinary has declined to hear the grievance. This might explain their silence.

@AllThePotatoesAreSinging they don’t have a grievance policy. I didn’t even have a contract of employment.

I had a company settle with me the day before we were due to go to tribunal. Hold your nerve op.

@JustWalkingTheDogs this is what I think they will do. It's stressful, but I will hold my nerve, like you say!

If they make an offer then have you considered what approach will give you iron-clad protection regarding future employers seeking references given previous employers' allegations? It might be worth doing some research in advance if faced with an urgent decision to settle at the door?

@Zilla1 Would you believe I got an email at 630 pm on Saturday evening (despite me repeatedly asking the company not to contact me outside of office hours) inviting me to a grievance meeting on 29th January. This was from a different HR Agency (the same one that heard my disciplinary appeal).

I'm just contemplating what to do next. I know my mental health will not let me attend a meeting. However, I think the company are not playing fair. It's taken so long for them to hear this grievance, and I'm no longer employed by them.

Call the eltal http://bpp-pro-bono.developmentzone.co/blog/projects/employment-law-telephone-advice-line-eltal/

Hi OP,

How annnoying. At least you have some time to think. When is the tribunal scheduled? Is it so close to the 29th that you won't appear unreasonable to decline/there isn't enough time for then to suggest some later dates if you reply you're 'unavailable' on the 29th and invite them to suggest a handful of later dates that might be convenient?

How many days/weeks separated this communication with your last email before Christmas? It helps them look unreasonable if they take several weeks to reply then want you to truck up in a week or so?

I think the tribunal papers must have turned up and this is them thinking ah shit we have to try and look like we’ve done something

If the tribunal papers have turned up and the OP isn't up to a meeting then that might progressing to Tribunal might be the basis for a reply that avoids a meeting but reduces the risk of a discount being applied to any settlement if the grievance process wasn't completed. (I wonder) Has a Tribunal hearing date been set?

It won't go against you at tribunal because they have already failed to follow the Acas Code.

What "protected act" are you saying you did? If you mean the grievance about race discrimination that wouldn't prevent you being dismissed for fraud, they're unconnected.

Why did you need "reasonable adjustments" for the first grievance, do you have a disability?

This is nuts. What on earth are they playing at? I hope it gets sorted for you soon OP.

That law was overturned years ago. Post termination grievances no longer have to be heard.

This wasn't a post termination grievance though, so it's irrelevant.

@Zilla1 and @Codlingmoths The tribunal papers have definitely not been served yet. I called the tribunal office again this morning. Due to backlogs they say it will be another month or so. They're currently working on cases lodged in September 2024. I can only think they are receiving legal advice advising them to hear the grievance, as they certainly haven't been interested in the last six months.

My last communication to them was 20th December 2024, and I heard nothing until the message on Saturday evening. They didn't answer any of my questions or concerns.

@Negroany My protected act was raising a grievance re race discrimination. A month after I raised this grievance they issued a disciplinary against me, and subsequently sacked me, without hearing my grievance. You are correct in saying they are unconnected. However, the disciplinary was only raised against me, as I done the protected act. Had I not done that, I would still be employed. That is the 'victimisation' element of the claim, together with the discrimination itself.

I originally asked them to hear the grievance in writing as a 'reasonable adjustment' to take account of my stress and anxiety (which is documented medically, and they have proof of this). This is the disability. Also, the person who the grievance was about was holding the meeting, and his best friend was attending as an 'independent witness'. My health would not have permitted me to attend this meeting. I was actually admitted hospital twice with the physical symptoms of this, which are ongoing.

@MrTiddlesTheCat It is totally nuts!

A grievance is not a protected act. A public interest disclosure is a protected act.

@Negroany Under the Equality Act 2010 there are 9 protected characteristics, one of which is race. For the purpose of the Employment Tribunal, raising a grievance in relation to a protected characteristic is considered a protected act. This is what I am referring to.

This is wrong. Under Section 27 of the Equality Act, making an allegation that someone has breached the Act is a protected act unless the allegation was made in bad faith. It does not require the allegation to be made publicly. So raising a grievance saying that the company or an employee has breached the Equality Act is a protected act.

Given the sequence of events, it may appear to the tribunal that the disciplinary proceedings were started because of the grievance, in which case it is classed as victimisation.