House deeds problem

[OneGreyBiscuit]

Myself, brother and mother moved in 2000 and with that the deeds to the house were put in all our names. My brother passed in August and his executor wanted to look through the documents as my brother was on the deeds. It transpires that our dear old mother changed the deeds into her name only in 2009. I think because my brother got into financial difficulties, although neither myself or brother signed anything agreeing to this. I am now at a stage of cutting contact with her as I'm done but can anyone give me any advice on the house situation?

It wasn't really that sort of set up. No one was paying any rent to anyone. I moved out in 2002, 2 years after moving there. I don't think inheritance tax was an issue as the house, belongings and savings wouldn't be enough to warrant it. The house in London was purchased under rtb in 1996 and was in both parents names. I don't know what happened in 1998 when he died, whether she put it solely in her name or didn't change it. I assume she must have changed it but don't know for sure. It only went into our names upon selling it and moving.

That document you have posted says that the transfer took place in 2000 and was between the housing company and others.

So unless there were multiple transfers (this sometimes happens if there was a house and then additional land sold eg a section of garden area) this document is not matching up with your memory.

The reality is that this all happened 30 years ago. Your recollection is fairly likely to be inaccurate/patchy. You need a solicitor to look properly at the documentation and to work out who owned what and when.

To add as before, my brother wanted this more than anyone, I just went along with it. With hindsight I wish it had just been left with her tbh and maybe I should just leave it as it is. I don't have the energy anymore after recent events. I only asked on here to get an opinion but I think I knew I would get a few "grabby, not your house, none of your business" comments along the way.🤷

The name I scrubbed out was my brother's though? Why would his name be on any documentation? I really don't know.

Grabby comments on here about things like this are usually from posters who've already got their chunky inheritances or/and have their mortgages paid off, so in really nice financial positions.

Please at least go and see a solicitor about all this @OneGreyBiscuit .

Sounds liked a possible confusion. I remember a friend having to get his daughter to sign something so he could sell his house, I think so she couldn't refuse to move and block the sale (not that she was likely to I hasten to add).

Thank you. Did think that myself!😏

It has to be that sort of setup if a house or part of a house is gifted to children, which it seems your mother gifted you and your brother 1/3 each. If the parent continues to live in the house without paying market rent (or the appropriate % of it) it is not considered a true gift by HMRC, just a convenient way of avoiding IHT and/or potential care home fees. Who knows what the level of IHT will be when your mother dies or how much house prices might rise.

If your mother didn't change the ownership to her name when your father died it will have been done when the house was sold, the ownership would have to have been tidied up for the sale to go through. As someone said above this is also when you and your brother would have had to sign something to agree the sale, if you were living there, to make sure you would vacate the property on completion.

You're getting a hard time here, OP, because MN doesn't approve of right to buy.

The narrative as you have explained it is:

Parents live in council house (House 1)

Parents buy Council house under right to buy.

Father dies and Mother is therefore sole legal owner of the former council house.

Mother sells Council house and buys new property in joint names with Son and Daughter. Son and Daughter make no financial contribution to this new property.

Mother now appears to be the sole legal owner of the property (House 2) - although OP hasn't provided the screen shot of this so can't tell. It says [NAME] and others were the transferees (i.e received the property).

This means that either:

1. There is a mistaken recollection and House 2 was never sold to the three parties (Mother son and daughter) and was instead sold to Mother - highly unlikely given the entry on the land registry form.
2. House 2 was sold to the three parties and then the son and daughter transferred House 2 back to Mother at some point in time.
3. House 2 was sold to the three parties and then subsequently Mother has forged all documentation and somehow avoided all solicitors checks etc and managed to transfer House 2 to her sole name OR informed the land registry that the house was transferred without actually transferring the property back legally (this can actually happen - there are scams where it has been done).
4. Some form of action has been taken by the Mother over the fact that she has been coerced into putting the names of her adult children onto property that has not been paid for by them. Again highly unlikely that this could have happened without the OP being aware of it.

OP you just need to see a solicitor. You don't need to see your mother's solicitor. They won't be able to discuss this with you since you are not their client. You need to instruct your own independent solicitor to look at this for you.

If you post a photo of the full land registry document with names blanked out I can probably assist a bit more but a solicitor needs to download the full land registry documentation and to review it in detail.

It will cost you a couple of thousand but if your initial actions were above board then it will be worth it to resolve the issue.

Does this help any? obviously I've obscured name, address and price paid

Oh dear maybe they can have a go at Margaret Thatcher instead then? (I know she's deceased)

Presumably under the blue is just the name of your mother

Yes

A transfer would only be filed if it created new rights or restrictions. So you’d have to ask the land registry for copies of any documents filed with the last application, to get hold of the transfer you think is fraudulent

The last entry on your most recent photo shows the transfer was definitely done using a solicitor. Lay people wouldn’t know to put an indemnity in.

I would get a copy of the 2000 Transfer showing your brother and others (presumably including you) to reassure yourself, then contact the Land Registry fraud department.

I moved out in 2002, 2 years after moving there.

Sorry OP, but to add to your woes, if you've been claiming any means-tested benefits and you do/did part own this property, then your share of equity in it should have been declared, to not do so is potentially committing fraud (if the equity takes you over £6k it would have affected the amount of any means tested benefits you could get and if over £16k (these are current amounts, in the past it would have been lower) you'd not have been entitled to means-tested benefits at all. Owning a property is only disregarded as savings/assets if you're living there. Even if there was £0 equity in it, the fact of part owning it would have rendered you ineligible for housing benefit to pay rental costs on another home.

Don't quite understand your post, not in a rude way but I moved into my partner's home which I'm also not on the registry/mortgage (another story). I've never claimed any housing benefit.

I think PP was concerned in case you had claimed any benefits like UC or tax credits etc that are income or savings related within this period.

No only child benefit.

OP there are some revolting, malicious comments on here. Ignore them.
If your mother changed ownership without you and your brother knowing, agreeing and signing as such, then that is a disgusting thing to do, apart from the fact that it is fraud. If it is in her character to do this, then no wonder you have little to do with her.
A few years ago a family member and I changed the proportion of a property we both owned. The person who was giving up the majority of their share had to go to a different solicitor to ensure they knew exactly what they were voluntarily giving up. So each party had to have their own solicitor.
Phone the Land Registry. They are very helpful and will take this seriously. (If there is a long wait time there is an option for a call back - I did exactly this today and they called me back within the hour).
Finally - don't be concerned about "upsetting" your mother - she sounds unpleasant and if she can do this, there is every chance she will disinherit you anyway. Get this sorted soon in case she dies and you are left fighting for your share of the property.

That's great then. There's no problems there.

I was worried for you because you made a comment, when someone said something about your income, about how you're not breaking any laws because you didn't own any other property.

Then you posted you'd moved out of the one you owned.

I was concerned you were one of the many needing their wages or housing costs topped up and had inadvertently been committing benefit fraud.

Because a house you own is only disregarded if you're living in it. If you're not living in it it's counted as if it were cash in your bank account.

Which might then have been a can of worms you didn't want to open by digging into your situation and this house.

This thread is Oscar worthy