Can she move to her home country without him?

[FootballGrump]

My lovely friend from an EU country has just had a baby with a man in England.

It turns out he is a bit of a shit:

• kept threatening to leave her during the pregnancy
• gave her a hard time after the birth for taking the baby to her home country while her parent was dying of cancer
• She is struggling to process her parent’s death while being the main care giver to her baby and maintaining a tidy house. She wants to pay for help from her own savings but he calls her spoiled and does everything he can to sabotage her efforts to find a cleaner or a babysitter
• When she does get help he is livid and storms out of the house then eventually argues with her about it claiming these are unnecessary expenses
• He recently got angry with her for not being willing to leave her breastfed baby with his parents overnight so he could take her on an overnight trip. He accused her of lying to him before getting together and pretending she’d be way more relaxed as a mum.This is just one example of how stubborn and inflexible he can be with his demands

For context, she is a hard working career woman with a job that pays as well as his, and is currently on maternity leave and using her savings to cover expenses.

His stinginess and anger are making her very sad, he shows little empathy for the losses she has experienced, and she now considers leaving him.
Because she has no support network in the UK the only way she can do this is by going back to her home town.

The question is: can she legally leave the UK with her baby and move home, given that the father is based here and is on the child’s birth certificate?
the couple live together but are not married.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Read up on The Hague convention which will provide some guidance.

Thanks for the suggestion! Initially thought you were making fun of me but realise this is actually a convention on child custody

The short answer is no, a parent cannot relocate a child out of the country without the other parent’s permission or a court order.

yes I think so if not married.

The question is: can she legally leave the UK with her baby and move home, given that the father is based here and is on the child’s birth certificate?

Depends. She needs his permission or the courts permission to take the baby. She is free to leave at any time. The baby isn't.

I believe the country in which the child is born is taken into account, also if one parent is in the same country and from there. I don't think you can take a child to another country permanently without both parents consent anyway? You need to consult a family/immigration lawyer.

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

She should get legal advice from a professional, not mumsnet. Last thing she needs is to be arrested for international child abduction.

Against the father's wish? No. She can't relocate the child to another country.

Ouch. The convention seems pretty clear that she can’t take the child without the father’s consent.

this is soooo sad.

He does very little for the baby and certainly does a lot to make the wife miserable.

she does not feel she could leave him and still reside in the UK on her current income, it would be a stretch to pay for full time childcare, housing, and all the other expenses if both parents lived separately. And she has no network at all in her town.

is there no way an early mother can get around this?

Seek legal advice but without the father's permission to relocate most likely not a lot to do.

Thanks everyone, lots of useful links here that I can share with her, so she can start getting her ducks in a row one way or another.

Depending on her income (and maybe resident status?) she may be entitled to help with childcare. Citizens advice should be able to advise on that. If they separate she would be able to claim maintenance from the father. Assuming he isn't working cash in hand and is employed it can be taken directly from his paycheck if necessary. She will also get child benefit, and if living on her own a reduction in council tax.

Thanks @Sewingbuttons . Let’s see if any of that can help. I doubt it can fundamentally change the equation for her when comparing cost of living in London to her home where she has her own place and so on.
it’s so hard, having a baby with the wrong person can really ruin your life.

As PP have suggested no she can't.

It's supposed to be in the best interest of the child, as maintaining relationships across countries is very difficult etc. I've seen some suggesting looking at what help she can get - she may be entitled to things like UC depending on what she earns, as well as childcare help.

Unfortunately having a child is incredibly important decision and who we chose to have children with can be very difficult.

I will say that his behaviour does seem to be veering into coercion and abuse (I couldn't say for certain) but impacting her ability to parent, preventing her seeking domestic help etc, I can really advise she speak to Women's Aid or similar who can give advice both on leaving a relationship with a partner like this but also legal support and avenues to get help.

@CillaDog I agree his behaviour is borderline coercive / abusive, but I don’t think it goes far enough to be considered that in a more formal context. I don’t think she could build a legal argument he is abusive and therefore dangerous for the child.
he’s more one of those men you sometimes see who always puts a damper on the mood, always wants their way and sulks when they don’t get, is massively immature and inflexible and unwilling to compromise to make anyone else happy.
she should not have had a baby with him. Now that she does I think he’s the kind of stingy person who’d rather keep the child 50% even if it’s to the baby’s detriment rather than pay a single penny of CMS.
i doubt he’d permit her to leave the country even if when he has the baby he doesn’t seem to engage much with it. That doesn’t make him evil, some adults just don’t enjoy babies that much I guess

Kindly refrain from posting crap advice on legal. You clearly haven’t a clue what you’re on about.

This is wrong. He's the father whether married or not. She'll be committing child abduction if she takes the child away without permission

i think there are different things to pull out here.
Firstly, your friend should work out how to afford a life herself here with a child, probably with some kind of shared parenting agreement, if she wishes to separate.
Secondly, whilst this man may not be good with babies, one thing which is helpful to remember is that this is about the child’s interest. So it is in the child’s interests to grow up knowing his or her father. Many men are better fathers when DC get a bit older and can interact more. DC will also develop their own relationship with their father.
Thirdly, please try not to frame it in terms of ‘ruining’ her life - that is how my mother framed having me for different reasons (which I rationally understand, but was emotionally difficult when younger). The fact is that your friend did have a baby with this man, the law recognises the child’s rights to have a relationship with both parents, and the responsibilities of both parents, and that is the context your friend has to work and live in.

She could go and visit her family for a while.

Habitual residence refers to the place where a child has established a regular and consistent presence, reflecting a stable environment. It is not necessarily the child's country of birth or citizenship but the place where the child's life is centred.

@Talulahalula yes, the framing is important here and I will not be showing her this thread nor will I be telling her she has ruined her life. I think that would be counterproductive.

She does not regret having a child and she is a doting mother. I think she probably knew he was not the perfect partner but she really wanted a child, and will always be happy she started a family.

When I said ruin her life, I was thinking more about her losing the freedom to live and work in the country she calls home where all her friends and family are

Is he on the birth certificate as the father?

From the OP:

the father is based here and is on the child’s birth certificate

Sounds like they will split anyway if he keeps threatening to leave

Whilst she's on maternity leave she would benefit from another visit to her home country.

Yes she will need to come back but it sounds like she needs space to grieve and have some practical support to gather her mental and emotional strength.

She needs to think about how she can best structure her life in the UK as a single parent as this marriage is unlikely to survive.