Adhering to current court order whilst waiting for a hearing date to vary court order. Untenable position...

[Campari20]

I have put in a c2 application to stop overnight contact on the basis of disclosures of abuse from DD, social care involvement and a number of police investigations regarding DDs father. DD is showing signs of trauma after contact and disclosed a number of very worrying things to myself, school, authorities which essentially are physical and emotional abuse. I been advised that I have to stick to the current order until or unless the order is varied.. handovers take anywhere up to 1-2 hours where DD is so utterly distressed and refuses to go. She has locked herself in the car, ran in front of a car to get away from him, screamed, cried, hidden... we do our handover in public places and members of the public end up calling the police. It's just utterly horrific. I've explored if handovers can take place at school but school do not consent to this and will not agree if asked by the court or cafcass... I know many will ask why I'm continuing to send DD but I've been threatened twice with a transfer of residence, we have a penal notice attached to the order if I breach it..I've made it clear to DD I will never force her out of the car to go but I've told her I do need to take her and try. The last weekend I spent 3 hours on each day trying to get her to go.. her father does nothing at all to help her or reassure her. DD is now telling teachers and her peers how much she hates him and how he scares her. We have a contact weekend approaching, he's had several correspondence asking him to agree day contact or supervised contact, of course all refused and he's intent on forcing the overnight arrangements. He's not at all concerned by DDs welfare.

My question is, I've put the application in to vary the order and I'm simply waiting for a hearing date, will I really suffer contempt of court implications if I decide to stop this and not put DD through the trauma? Whilst police and SS cannot override a court order, I have it in writing that they are concerned that I'm continuing to make DD available for contact and that I should keep her with.me whilst investigations are undertaken.. in addition to this, I've not missed a contact, I'm not currently in breach of the order.

I just can't do this to her anymore, she's traumatised, when she's gone for contact its usually ended with him forcibly removing her and her going off with him restrained. She looked utterly terrified last time.. she cries with him the entire time and when she's returned she looks completely exhausted and drained.

I'm scared to go against the order but from a legal standpoint will the court have a degree of understanding as to why the order was breached and see it as a parent exercising parental responsibility to safeguard their child and that there have been no previous breaches?

Whilst police and SS cannot override a court order, I have it in writing that they are concerned that I'm continuing to make DD available for contact and that I should keep her with.me whilst investigations are undertaken

I think that of you have this in writing from the police and Social Services, then you would be failing in your duty if you do not keep her from seeing him. You need to stop the contact. (NB I am not a lawyer.)

How old is DD?
Why did you separate/get divorced ( was it ?domestic abuse?). Can you get legal aid and get a solicitor? Someone should be advising you about this.

Ask the court for an urgent hearing date.

Have legal aid. Solicitor has written many times to him asking for agreement on supervised contact but obviously he won't agree.

I left him due to DV. Had a fact finding where they made findings against us both but his were quite significant in terms of DD.

DD is 6.

I have. I received a response saying the court file was with the judge for review and we will receive a hearing date soon. Cafcass have asked for the case to go to the high court as its so complex but needs agreement from all parties..

What findings against you op? Have you 'history' of not sending her (previous to the times you mentioned)? I was fighting to keep dc not even biologically exh's and my barrister warned me he had seen dm's lose their dc to the applicant.. Insane imo.

Why are you still on here asking about this? You have been told by police not to hand her over and yet you still are. And now SS have also told you to stop yet you still are.

You just stop taking her. He can argue all he likes but the court order was before these disclosures and before you have been told by both police and SS to stop.

He must have done a really bad number on you if you still think you need to force a screaming child see him, against her will and against police and SS instructions. Court order be dammed. He would need to go to court about you not complying and you already going to court so what are you afraid of? She will remember you taking her still even after she disclosed to you, this will stay with her for life and she may not trust you again.

FFS stop taking her

If CSWS are telling you not, then you are still …. I’d not be surprised if they went down the CP route if they weren’t already for the emotional neglect aspect of things.
listen to CSWS and do what they tell you to do

@Sheepareawesome I've posted on this section to ask for the specific legal implications.

I'm doing the best that I can, you've obviously not ever been in a position where you've had to send a traumatised child to see the person she's being traumatised by and if not you risk the court awarding him more contact or a transfer of residence. Perhaps instead of your flippant judgement you might empathise with how untenable that position is.

The judges have seen it all. If you have findings against you both, there must be a reason. If the police and Cafcass have decided not to intervene, they may believe you are part of the problem and there are no safeguarding concerns.

Er, OK I didn't think I was being flippant but whatever. Just find it frustrating that you repeatedly post about this and dont take any advice. If you want legal advice then I suggest you follow what your solicitor says, or what the police or SS says over what people say on an Internet forum.

Findings were not made against me in respect of child arrangements.. the fact finding we had was a fact finding in respect of a non molestation order.

Cafcass have intervened, they received referrals from social care and have no asked social care to intervene..

I'm not sure where you read police have not intervened, there are currently 3 investigations.. two of which I haven't instigated..

I wouldn't wish you to spend one second in my shoes.. perhaps you'd appreciate people being frustrated at you also. Perhaps if my posts offend you so much maybe consider just ignoring them rather than taking time out of your day just to be unkind..maybe when or if you experience what its like to go through child arrangements in this manner you might consider being a bit kinder..

In my experience as DSL in school, where there have been the slightest concerns about a parent’s suitability to have unsupervised access to a child, both SS and the Police have acted swiftly to override any court orders. That is their basic safeguarding duty. What has never happened is that either SS or the police have said that a child is at significant risk of harm in unsupervised visits but we’ll just let them continue.

But I understand it as police and SS not having the power to override a court order the matter can only be altered by going to court to seek a variation of the contact order which is what I've sought. There's huge backlogs in listing's at the moment, even with emergency hearings.

I know SS and police cannot advise you to actively breach a court order, it's a question on providing advice on exercising your parental responsibility to safeguard.

If the police believe a child is at risk, they should involve social services and even take the child from you if you don't protect him/her. They don't need your permission. The police can place a child under police protection for up to 72 hours if they have a good reason to believe that the child is suffering harm or at risk of significant harm. The police don't need a court order to place a child under police protection.

The police and Cafcass told her NOT to let her daughter go to him.

To be clear, CAFCASS have not said anything yet, the only thing they have done is batted it to social care to investigate. I am told to expect the court to raise a section 37 with the local authority.

CAFCASS are doing nothing to make suggestions on how contact could take place safely in the interim.

Ignore anyone here being unkind.

I am wondering why your solicitor is not advising you more? Surely the solicitor would tell you to do as the police and cafcass advise?

Sorry, I misunderstood . So you are left in limbo?

It would be good if a Family Lawyer or barrister would answer here.

Ask your solicitor again.

Definitely feel in limbo. I have a social worker visiting us next week so will get some advice from them too.

Absolute crap. Social services cannot override a court order. For social services to initiate child protection proceedings because a parent adheres to a court order despite having made an urgent application to vary the order would be insanely oppressive and should never meet threshold. It would be a joke.

OP if police have actually said you should be send her for contact have they arrested him? They absolutely could help you here by arresting and bailing him to have no contact. That would override the court order. Their 'advice' means shit if they haven't got enough evidence to arrest him.

I've seen findings made by a leading family court judge that are so unbelievably wrong based on totally outdated and ignorant understanding of domestic abuse. Judges aren't infallible. And those findings ruined the woman's life for 10 years as they followed her into every hearing where she tried to protect her child. Not saying that's the case here but it's not correct to say findings are always fact.

Social services cannot override a court order. They can't 'let' or not let court ordered contact to continue. You've misunderstood.

Police protection? Removing her from her mother? Are you mad? Police need to arrest the perpetrator and put bail conditions in place if they have the evidence to do so. Why on earth are you talking about her being removed from her mother under pp?