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How much trouble could I be in for refusing to offer this person a tenancy?

224 replies

Imalreadytorn · 06/08/2024 20:02

Name change for this as I am aware that landlords aren’t always popular even under normal circumstances.
Please note I am posting in Legal for advice, not in AIBU.
Briefly I have had a room become available in a house share. Existing tenants have been there 4 - 6 years. They are a real mix, but get along well although I wouldn’t describe them as friends.
It’s a nice room and there’s been a lot of interest. So far no one has ticked all the boxes I think are necessary to gel with the other tenants.
I’ve had a viewing today and the applicant is clearly ND. A really nice person but spoke and walked about without stopping the whole time. I felt completely out of my depth after a viewing appointment which lasted about 5 times the usual length. Added to that there were numerous messages before the appointment ( 16 texts and calls during my 90 minutes journey there). Since the viewing I have had 12 text messages, even though I explained that I couldn’t make any decisions until I finished my appointments and got home, likely to be at least 9.00pm.
I’m not at my strongest right now, and even at my best I would struggle to meet the frequent need for information/ reassurance/ interaction from this individual.
One of the existing tenants who was in the shared area for part of the viewing has already messaged me expressing concern. ( he works incredibly long hours and the others know to give him space when he gets home exhausted).
The applicant has a housing support worker who has already called me ( I didn’t answer as driving) quite forcefully confirming that full rent will be met due to disability and is easily afforded due to PIP.
I cannot offer this person a tenancy, it’s unfair on the others, but I can’t deny that it is due to behaviour, which is clearly linked to disability.
Unfortunately I haven’t found a suitable tenant so the advertisement is still running.
I assume that I have no ‘defence’ and will just have to accept the consequences?
How likely is it that action will be taken?
I have 2 house share properties

OP posts:
Qanat53 · 08/08/2024 15:51

Imalreadytorn · 06/08/2024 20:02

Name change for this as I am aware that landlords aren’t always popular even under normal circumstances.
Please note I am posting in Legal for advice, not in AIBU.
Briefly I have had a room become available in a house share. Existing tenants have been there 4 - 6 years. They are a real mix, but get along well although I wouldn’t describe them as friends.
It’s a nice room and there’s been a lot of interest. So far no one has ticked all the boxes I think are necessary to gel with the other tenants.
I’ve had a viewing today and the applicant is clearly ND. A really nice person but spoke and walked about without stopping the whole time. I felt completely out of my depth after a viewing appointment which lasted about 5 times the usual length. Added to that there were numerous messages before the appointment ( 16 texts and calls during my 90 minutes journey there). Since the viewing I have had 12 text messages, even though I explained that I couldn’t make any decisions until I finished my appointments and got home, likely to be at least 9.00pm.
I’m not at my strongest right now, and even at my best I would struggle to meet the frequent need for information/ reassurance/ interaction from this individual.
One of the existing tenants who was in the shared area for part of the viewing has already messaged me expressing concern. ( he works incredibly long hours and the others know to give him space when he gets home exhausted).
The applicant has a housing support worker who has already called me ( I didn’t answer as driving) quite forcefully confirming that full rent will be met due to disability and is easily afforded due to PIP.
I cannot offer this person a tenancy, it’s unfair on the others, but I can’t deny that it is due to behaviour, which is clearly linked to disability.
Unfortunately I haven’t found a suitable tenant so the advertisement is still running.
I assume that I have no ‘defence’ and will just have to accept the consequences?
How likely is it that action will be taken?
I have 2 house share properties

You are no clinician…. Please ignore your own diagnosis.

This person is not a good fit. Housemates voted no.

You don’t owe them any explanation. You are not a business etc don’t worry about discrimination

Just say, that you have decided on another applicant know to another room share person. Block them,

Topseyt123 · 08/08/2024 16:13

I'm another landlord, though my properties are not shared occupation.

I think you have been overthinking this. You decide who you are going to allow to rent and live in your property. Nobody else, although as yours sounds like a multiple occupancy house you will want to try and ensure things remain amicable if possible with your existing tenants.

You don't have to give any reason why you have chosen not to let it to this person. They weren't/aren't signed up to any contract with you so just say "sorry, already let now, signed up for and paid" etc. They can jump up and down all they like but you needn't pay any attention. I highly doubt any action would be taken.

In fact, it's probably good that you have now blocked them. Keep it that way. Don't let them bully you. You are the decision maker here.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 08/08/2024 16:14

If you are pushed, surely it is ok to say you are not comfortable with the level and nature of the communication related to the appointment to view and feel that this would be unsustainable for you and the other tenants? She surely does not have to right to keep messaging you over and over?

pinkyredrose · 08/08/2024 16:46

notatinydancer · 06/08/2024 20:25

My insurance precludes people on housing benefits can you say that ?
Although I'd just say they're not suitable, or it's been let.

Isn't that illegal these days?

Octavon · 08/08/2024 16:51

People are forgetting that disability requires reasonable adjustments. Sometimes the adjustments that would be required to accommodate a disabled person are not reasonable, and in that case you can say no. In OP’s case it’s not reasonable to expect her to accommodate constant harassment and calls at midnight.

Charlize43 · 08/08/2024 17:02

Tell the support worker that you run a very stylish house and you didn't find them au courant enough. Prada would have passed, but there just wasn't any! Barely a Birkin in sight and certainly not enough Balenciaga! Where was the Chanel? Sorry, but you'll have to show them the Dior! Explain that all the other existing tenants are 'deeeeevine' and it just wouldn't be a good 'blend'. Use key words: synergy; coiffure; bad chi; haute couture; milieu; splendiferous; faux pas; and synthetics. Go full Deeana Vreeland on them, then loudly hang up!

Prinnny · 08/08/2024 17:17

I think it’s fine to say the pre-existing tenets did not feel they were right for the property, they should have some input really.

wizzywig · 08/08/2024 17:31

Op what would you have done were it another protected characteristic?

Snowflake2 · 08/08/2024 17:50

TerrazzoChips · 08/08/2024 09:37

It does sound like this person wouldn’t be able to live in a shared house.

I wonder though, you don’t know they are neurodivergent, so when would personality become a disability if there’s no diagnosis. Which many adults may not have?

Personality (negative personality traits) isn't considered a disability, it's considered a lifestyle choice. IE the person could change if they wanted to, if their way of behaving wasn't working out well for them.

People with a diagnosed personality disorder may also be considered disabled. It would depend on how it affected them and the effects that had on their everyday life. People with a personality disorder can sometimes meet the criteria for successfully claiming PIP.

Not being able to get through ordinary daily life or life going wrong in some way such as being unable to hold a job or becoming homeless or an addict etc are things that may drive a person to seek help for their MH, which may then result in a PD diagnosis.

I would also say this person would be better off living somewhere self-contained. It can be stressful living with a random group of other people. I’d be wondering why the support worker wants to place them in a house share not a bedsit.

They probably can't afford a self contained place. Though I agree it would be better for them if they are ND. The need/desire to constantly mask (although in this instance perhaps not very effectively) around others, even when at home, isn't great for someone's MH.

The HMO with a LL renting out a room to each tenant with no consideration to existing tenants is a little different to OP running a house-share. The tenants in a house share will have more to do with each other. They'll be jointly liable for all the rent, utility bills and council tax split between them, a joint tenancy agreement naming them all. It's a lot more personal than living in a HMO and it's normal in a house-share to find someone who fits in with the rest so everyone is happy. In terms of this, probably vulnerable (since they claim PIP so are officially disabled and have a support worker) person, living in a house-share with ordinary quiet sane sensible people is likely to work out better for them than living in a random HMO filled with whoever, where they may end up beig bullied or harassed by the other tenants. Unfortunately throwing someone who is really in no fit state to house-share into that mix is going to detract from the other housemates quality of life.

The housing support officer rally needs to find your applicant an assisted living place…ideally on a ground floor!

With this person being capable enough to show up to a house viewing, alone and have a conversation about the rental with the LL, I'd say they've got precisely zero chance of getting placed in an assisted living facility.

The problem for OP with all those posters saying just tell the support worker about the harassment, is twofold. First, the support worker isn't averse to a bit of harassment herself so is less likely to view her clients behaviour as a problem. Second, all it would take is for the support worker to announce that this excessive contact from her client is as a direct result of their disability causing them to behave that way and decide to take it further, for OP to end up in the very situation she's worried about of being accused of disability discrimination. If this behaviour is being driven by disability, OP may well have no grounds to refuse the tenancy due to it, regardless of her resources to cope with it or not. This is why it's better to say nothing at all. At the moment OP doesn't know what this person's disability is or how it affects them so can argue she hasn't been intentionally discriminatory. If the client and their support worker gets no further information from OP, they'll be hard pressed to argue any disability discrimination has taken place.

struggless · 08/08/2024 17:51

Maybe this tenant needs supported housing that the council or housing associations can provide. It seems like they need extra support, and I can’t see how them living in a random house share is beneficial for them. There’s no obligation for the other tenants to make reasonable adjustments for her disability. It seems like a potentially volatile situation that could cause her more stress. I really doubt the support worker has any comeback for you, I doubt you will be the first or last landlord that doesn’t immediately accept them. A lot of renters view multiple properties before they are successful

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/08/2024 18:03

People are forgetting that disability requires reasonable adjustments. Sometimes the adjustments that would be required to accommodate a disabled person are not reasonable, and in that case you can say no

A worthwhile reminder, @Octavon; claiming "discrimination" is a pretty common go-to, but unfortunately people don't always stop to consider all aspects of a situation, whereas a formal enquiry - should there be one - certainly would

That said I'd be very surprised if this went anywhere; it seems to have been solved for now with OP withdrawing the advert, and in the meantime the "support worker" will almost certainly just move onto someone else

CormorantStrikesBack · 08/08/2024 18:05

Sandyankles · 08/08/2024 09:56

OP - if the support worker continues to harass you, I’d be tempted to get in touch with someone ‘above’ her to ask that she is told to stop, and to mention the inappropriate times / amount of calls.

I was going to say the same. Support worker will have a manager and if the contact carries on I’d be getting in touch.

Viviennemary · 08/08/2024 18:13

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/08/2024 18:03

People are forgetting that disability requires reasonable adjustments. Sometimes the adjustments that would be required to accommodate a disabled person are not reasonable, and in that case you can say no

A worthwhile reminder, @Octavon; claiming "discrimination" is a pretty common go-to, but unfortunately people don't always stop to consider all aspects of a situation, whereas a formal enquiry - should there be one - certainly would

That said I'd be very surprised if this went anywhere; it seems to have been solved for now with OP withdrawing the advert, and in the meantime the "support worker" will almost certainly just move onto someone else

It isn't discrimination IMHO. OP is unable to provide the support this person needs. She is not the persons employer. Adjustments doesn't mean on call 24/7 for a tenant.

Reddog1 · 08/08/2024 18:22

You’ve said no. Just block now, and they can move on with their search. Don’t overthink.

ButtonMoonLoon · 08/08/2024 18:23

Surely the communication you have had ( that volume of messages) would be enough to say no?
That would ring alarm bells with me, and would indicate that the person needs a great deal more support and reassurance than you would be able to sustain.

ukgot2pot · 08/08/2024 18:26

Nobody should be harassed like this. You did the right thing but not accepting them.

Rosscameasdoody · 08/08/2024 18:28

Octavon · 08/08/2024 16:51

People are forgetting that disability requires reasonable adjustments. Sometimes the adjustments that would be required to accommodate a disabled person are not reasonable, and in that case you can say no. In OP’s case it’s not reasonable to expect her to accommodate constant harassment and calls at midnight.

No-one is forgetting that. It’s not clear whether this person would present a problem once the tenancy had been secured so OP would be well advised to stay away from any refusal that is disability related. Not suitable is a complete sentence - and I say that as an ex disability outreach worker.

EI12 · 08/08/2024 18:30

You know the answer. You do.

Snowflake2 · 08/08/2024 18:36

There's a difference between expecting OP to be always available or expected to respond
and
expecting the prospective tenant not to text/call/email.

In terms of discrimination, if such behaviour (excessive communication) was due to the person's disability, a LL could well be expected to put up with it. How the LL managed the behaviour (eg by turning off phone) or the effects it may have on their MH, would not be the disabled person's problem to solve.

OP, lots of posters saying the support worker may be seeking information to back up a need for council housing etc. Well, they may, but then why the pushy attitude? It's far more likely they're trying to bully you into accepting their client as a tenant. Because they already know council housing is hard to get, which is why they're not currently pushing for that, they know it would be a waste of time or the client has already been refused/assessed as band C and won't get housed for 10+ years. The client may have even expressed a preference for not living alone or for keeping costs down by sharing. Just because someone is disabled and perhaps would struggle socially, doesn't necessarily mean they want to not interact with others and live alone.

Regardless, whatever the support workers motives OP, you're not responsible in any way for their client. Not for housing them. Not for providing feedback. Not for helping the support worker build a case for alternative housing.

What's best for the prospective tenant has nothing to do with what's best for you. It's ok to put yourself and your business first here, you've currently done nothing wrong. What's best for you is to remain silent and refuse to engage further with the prospective tenant or their support worker. Bottom line is you don't owe them anything.

Lilactimes · 08/08/2024 18:39

It’s great you’re listening to your other tenants and it’s your choice who you let to. Just say you’ve let to someone already that the tenants know! And then block!

Rosscameasdoody · 08/08/2024 18:41

wizzywig · 08/08/2024 17:31

Op what would you have done were it another protected characteristic?

The same with this level of over communication I hope. But I doubt it would have happened with another protected characteristic. Sounds like ND or severe MH issue.

Rosscameasdoody · 08/08/2024 18:44

Snowflake2 · 08/08/2024 18:36

There's a difference between expecting OP to be always available or expected to respond
and
expecting the prospective tenant not to text/call/email.

In terms of discrimination, if such behaviour (excessive communication) was due to the person's disability, a LL could well be expected to put up with it. How the LL managed the behaviour (eg by turning off phone) or the effects it may have on their MH, would not be the disabled person's problem to solve.

OP, lots of posters saying the support worker may be seeking information to back up a need for council housing etc. Well, they may, but then why the pushy attitude? It's far more likely they're trying to bully you into accepting their client as a tenant. Because they already know council housing is hard to get, which is why they're not currently pushing for that, they know it would be a waste of time or the client has already been refused/assessed as band C and won't get housed for 10+ years. The client may have even expressed a preference for not living alone or for keeping costs down by sharing. Just because someone is disabled and perhaps would struggle socially, doesn't necessarily mean they want to not interact with others and live alone.

Regardless, whatever the support workers motives OP, you're not responsible in any way for their client. Not for housing them. Not for providing feedback. Not for helping the support worker build a case for alternative housing.

What's best for the prospective tenant has nothing to do with what's best for you. It's ok to put yourself and your business first here, you've currently done nothing wrong. What's best for you is to remain silent and refuse to engage further with the prospective tenant or their support worker. Bottom line is you don't owe them anything.

Agree. This has always been my experience as an outreach worker. MH or ND issues always result in difficulty placing in social housing. That’s not a reason to dump the problem on OP. I would stay well away from anything disability related as a reason for refusal, and not engage any further.

LolaDeleon · 08/08/2024 18:48

ForestForever · 08/08/2024 15:44

Very well said. Much better articulated than what I wrote but I hold the same sentiment and completely agree with you.

You articulate beautifully!

I really appreciated your response x

Qanat53 · 08/08/2024 18:50

OP can’t diagnose anything. Not qualified.

She can find someone annoying, unsuitable behavior, just not what she is looking for.

OP decided this person is disabled with no idea what was making her behave in way OP decided was ND.
Maybe prospective tenant thought OP was ND and it made Her nervous!!!

Rosscameasdoody · 08/08/2024 19:03

Qanat53 · 08/08/2024 18:50

OP can’t diagnose anything. Not qualified.

She can find someone annoying, unsuitable behavior, just not what she is looking for.

OP decided this person is disabled with no idea what was making her behave in way OP decided was ND.
Maybe prospective tenant thought OP was ND and it made Her nervous!!!

Could it possibly be the fact that this person has a support worker and is in receipt of pip - a disability benefit - that has provided the clue of a disability ? She hasn’t ’decided’ anything. She has the information, supplied by the support worker. And she has no obligation to provide a tenancy with this level of support needed. Speaking as an ex outreach worker, placements for people with mental health problems are very difficult to secure. The support worker was probably desperate to secure the place for her client, but that alone doesn’t make it a good fit.

My advice to OP is to stay well away. If this person does have MH/ND problems OP can expect zero help with any problems which arise after the tenancy has been secured.