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How much trouble could I be in for refusing to offer this person a tenancy?

224 replies

Imalreadytorn · 06/08/2024 20:02

Name change for this as I am aware that landlords aren’t always popular even under normal circumstances.
Please note I am posting in Legal for advice, not in AIBU.
Briefly I have had a room become available in a house share. Existing tenants have been there 4 - 6 years. They are a real mix, but get along well although I wouldn’t describe them as friends.
It’s a nice room and there’s been a lot of interest. So far no one has ticked all the boxes I think are necessary to gel with the other tenants.
I’ve had a viewing today and the applicant is clearly ND. A really nice person but spoke and walked about without stopping the whole time. I felt completely out of my depth after a viewing appointment which lasted about 5 times the usual length. Added to that there were numerous messages before the appointment ( 16 texts and calls during my 90 minutes journey there). Since the viewing I have had 12 text messages, even though I explained that I couldn’t make any decisions until I finished my appointments and got home, likely to be at least 9.00pm.
I’m not at my strongest right now, and even at my best I would struggle to meet the frequent need for information/ reassurance/ interaction from this individual.
One of the existing tenants who was in the shared area for part of the viewing has already messaged me expressing concern. ( he works incredibly long hours and the others know to give him space when he gets home exhausted).
The applicant has a housing support worker who has already called me ( I didn’t answer as driving) quite forcefully confirming that full rent will be met due to disability and is easily afforded due to PIP.
I cannot offer this person a tenancy, it’s unfair on the others, but I can’t deny that it is due to behaviour, which is clearly linked to disability.
Unfortunately I haven’t found a suitable tenant so the advertisement is still running.
I assume that I have no ‘defence’ and will just have to accept the consequences?
How likely is it that action will be taken?
I have 2 house share properties

OP posts:
MonkeyChips · 08/08/2024 09:49

PrincessofWells · 08/08/2024 09:14

Actually the OP is carrying out a valid service by accommodating people in HMOs. So these are single people who would be unable to find accommodation in the social sector because 1. No housing duty arises and 2. Single rooms are very hard to come by.

Well done Op for hanging on in an hostile environment. A lot have given up due to the legal and political decisions taken by the last government.

Both those problems you cite largely arise BECAUSE of the private landlord housing sector. OP isn't providing a "service", she's running a business. A business that is perfectly valid and legal of course, but not one that I personally would touch with a barge pole.

OpizpuHeuvHiyo · 08/08/2024 09:52

Yanbu at all. Not being a good fit with the existing sharers is a perfectly legitimate reason, and the constant harassment and disrespect from both the applicant and the support worker is equally a red flag. You aren't turning them down due to their neurodiversity - there are plenty of neurodiverse people who would be nothing like this. Both the population of neurotypical people and neurodiverse people contain individuals who are a nightmare to deal with and you have no obligation to deal with this one. The council may have a duty to house her but you do not.

Sandyankles · 08/08/2024 09:54

Monkey- that’s uncalled for. OP IS providing a housing option for people. She isn’t morally obliged to house everyone and it wouldn’t be fair on the existing tenants to impose someone who might need more support than can give onto them.
I’ve lived in house shares - a great option for young professionals, we were busy and young - it wouldn’t have been a suitable home for a person such as the op describes.

Sandyankles · 08/08/2024 09:56

OP - if the support worker continues to harass you, I’d be tempted to get in touch with someone ‘above’ her to ask that she is told to stop, and to mention the inappropriate times / amount of calls.

Lougle · 08/08/2024 10:02

The support worker may well be trying to gather evidence to support her client. I would email them and list the number of messages you received, the number of calls, the time of the calls, and that you felt harassed. Then say that the existing tenants would not be a good fit for the applicant.

titchy · 08/08/2024 10:02

Both those problems you cite largely arise BECAUSE of the private landlord housing sector.

Rubbish. Selling off social housing and not replacing it is the cause of the problem. Private landlords are filling that gap. If they didn't then people would be homeless.

I really don't get the hate towards landlords. Lots of people don't want to buy and therefore need to rent.

ruffler45 · 08/08/2024 10:26

The number of phone calls and texts is a perfect reason for refusal if challenged.

Your type of property/house share does not sound like a good fit for their needs or the needs of the existing occupants.

Sounds like the support worker is trying to offload some of their reponsibilty/ get an easy out.

Codlingmoths · 08/08/2024 10:27

I would absolutely tell the support worker the level of contact is unsustainable and neither you nor the housemates could cope. They are working hard to get their client a placement and it’s only fair to explain this is a big problem.

blackcherryconserve · 08/08/2024 10:32

Lougle · 08/08/2024 10:02

The support worker may well be trying to gather evidence to support her client. I would email them and list the number of messages you received, the number of calls, the time of the calls, and that you felt harassed. Then say that the existing tenants would not be a good fit for the applicant.

I wouldn't do anything to prolong contact with the social worker or applicant. If the SW doesn't desist from trying to make the OP reconsider then, and only then, would I take it further with the SW's manager. The OP doesn't need this hassle and time wasting. That the person in question isn't a good fit for the existing tenants should be enough reason to reject, nothing to do with possible ND.

Menapausemum1974 · 08/08/2024 10:32

Imalreadytorn · 08/08/2024 07:57

Probably more than I was getting from the prospective tenant before I blocked them!
The support worker has sent an email with a copy of consent to discuss, which had appropriately landed in my junk folder, hence not seeing it until this morning.
To clear up a few points raised. I did specify a non smoker but there was a misunderstanding regarding the small shared courtyard.
I suppose that no one can make me gives reasons for not wanting a particular person, but there is a danger of being accused of discrimination. I assume it would be up to the person making the claim to substantiate it though.
I am not going to contact the support worker, and if she manages to get hold of me I will just have to tell her that I simply don’t have the resources to deal with this level of interaction.

@Imalreadytorn I've worked with people in similar roles as this support worker. They are passionate about their role and very often can come across as a bit pushy as they are trying to get the best outcome for their client. However they have very little " real authority " yes they can pull you up on rights etc but you also have every right to say the level of contact was unreasonable and you don't wish to take things further on this basis. The worker will understand this ( might not let you know this though) and will try to get their client to understand boundaries etc for next time. I doubt this is the first or last time this has been an issue. You aren't rejecting someone because they have a disability. You are rejecting them because their behaviour is unsuitable to a relationship with you and by what you've suggested the other tenants. A disability doesn't mean people can behave/ act in anyway whatsoever and you just need to put up with it. They have a worker for a reason and hopefully this worker will work with them to moderate the behaviour if possible and also to find " suitable " accommodation for their needs.

Viviennemary · 08/08/2024 10:32

You absolutely did the right thing. And even if you are questioned about it again which isn't likely IMHO could you say you are unable to provide the extra support this person needs, Which is true, These support workers aim to get accommodation for their clients. Sounds like this person needs to be in a supportive living facility and that isn't you.

Imisscoffee2021 · 08/08/2024 10:33

@Imalreadytorn if you do end up jeedingyo contact the support worker, you can cite the calls at unsociable hours of not an emergency nature as your reason. They don't know you had your phone on do not disturb, they don't know ehat your family life is like. You could have small children or a job that needs you to have 8 hours sleep, but you're getting unsociable calls and that's not acceptable for a tenant to a landlord unless it's an emergency let alone a prospective tenant.

RogueFemale · 08/08/2024 10:36

Is this an HMO?

viques · 08/08/2024 10:41

MonkeyChips · 08/08/2024 09:07

I know you mean well OP, but this is what is so disgusting about the housing situation in the UK right now. You own TWO properties (well, presumably three since you must live somewhere too) and you have the power to turn away people who need those homes for themselves. People who already struggle to work, live, socialise, function "normally". And now this person may have nowhere to live - again.

It's absolutely despicable, really. (To be clear, you are not despicable, the situation that we're all in is).

I really struggle to think of any good reason why one person should morally be able to own three homes, when others are struggling to even be able to rent them.

So sad.

But the OP is providing good safe and presumably affordable housing for their other tenants( who are happy and staying in the properties for some time) the real issue is that supported housing for vulnerable people, like the prospective tenant is not available. It is not the OPs responsibility to provide safe housing for people who need more structured and supervised provision.

It could also be said that by providing good housing for people who currently as single people without additional needs are not eligible for social housing the OP is filling an important gap in the housing market.

thestudio · 08/08/2024 10:42

INAL but i think that discrimination only comes into play on a level playing field as it were - so if this person had fulfilled all the criteria (which could include ability to self support and communication skills) and you still turned them down, they might have a case.

I don't think you have to employ/rent to someone who cannot fit the core criteria - for example you would not be forced to hire a care worker whose physical disability meant they couldn't dress a client.

Interested to know what an actual lawyer thinks to this?

Related but separate - I don't think as a live out landlord you have any obligation to rent to anyone at all. I have been an accidental landlord and I remember reading that you should try to meet every prospective candidate rather than subcontracting to an agent, as 'not liking the cut of their jib' was both a good indication of future problems and a perfectly legal reason not to rent to them.

parkrun500club · 08/08/2024 10:45

It's a bit of a nonsense to put a moral value on OP's LL status either way (greedy house-hoarder vs selflessly performing an important public service in a tough environment). It's also irrelevant to her situation

I agree and I don't have an issue with landlords anyway - we need rental properties. The issue for me is the people who have second and holiday homes and remove properties from residential use.

A landlord, as with any service provider, has to make reasonable adjustments for disability. But it's mainly around physical adjustments, rather than dealing with calls all day and night! Shelter Legal England - Reasonable adjustments for disabled people - Shelter England

Shelter icon

Shelter Legal England - Reasonable adjustments for disabled people - Shelter England

Landlords must make reasonable adjustments when requested to enable a disabled person to use a property.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_options/housing_options_for_people_with_care_and_support_needs/reasonable_adjustments_for_disabled_people

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/08/2024 10:48

The support worker has sent an email with a copy of consent to discuss

Yes I thought they might, and the pressure suggest to me that they're perhaps not having any luck elsewhere either

Agree with others that you may need to say you simply can't deal with this level of calls, which as PPs have said would undoubtably be much worse if they moved in. You'll probably get some flannel about the "support available" should you accept, but support - if it exists at all - can be retracted instantly so frankly I'd just make it clear you're sticking with your decision

UprootedSunflower · 08/08/2024 10:52

I’ve been in the otherside of this.
My ND sister had a support worker who was very very pushy to get her in (unsuitable) house shares.
She was accepted and it was a year of hell all around. Thankfully she then got supported housing followed by a flat on her own. I don’t think accepting them would have helped anyone

Sugargliderwombat · 08/08/2024 10:54

Now you've had a missed call at midnight I think you're covered!

ChampagneLassie · 08/08/2024 10:55

MonkeyChips · 08/08/2024 09:07

I know you mean well OP, but this is what is so disgusting about the housing situation in the UK right now. You own TWO properties (well, presumably three since you must live somewhere too) and you have the power to turn away people who need those homes for themselves. People who already struggle to work, live, socialise, function "normally". And now this person may have nowhere to live - again.

It's absolutely despicable, really. (To be clear, you are not despicable, the situation that we're all in is).

I really struggle to think of any good reason why one person should morally be able to own three homes, when others are struggling to even be able to rent them.

So sad.

100% agree I don’t have anything against any one landlord personally but successive governments of both sides didn’t invest in social housing whilst also allowing becoming a small time landlord to be attractive when it should have been closed down on. And we’re now in a mess where many people struggle

PerkingFaintly · 08/08/2024 10:59

Agree with what everyone else says that you shouldn't get drawn into dialogue with the support worker unless forced: you've said No. There's nothing to discuss.

If you do get forced into communication, the phrase "conflicted with the needs of other occupants" can also be on your list.

(Obviously you don't have occupants' permission to discuss details with support worker, but your OP does makes clear current occupants have needs.)

I'm disabled and have had problems with housing. I'm keenly aware of my impact on other people, and don't think they exist just to be my supporting cast.

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 08/08/2024 11:00

@Imalreadytorn you can decline any prospective tenant you want. no one has more right over another. sometimes intuition takes precedence!!! I am also a landlord!

Thelnebriati · 08/08/2024 11:00

Keep a diary and evidence of every time they tried to contact you, the date and time. Take screen shots and write it all down.

Then design a green flag/red flag system to evaluate prospective tenants.

Hunkydory99 · 08/08/2024 11:09

Just say you had a number of applicants and they weren’t successful. Then there’s no risk of any accusations levelled at you

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 08/08/2024 11:09

GoldenLegend · 08/08/2024 09:47

I would also say this person would be better off living somewhere self-contained. It can be stressful living with a random group of other people. I’d be wondering why the support worker wants to place them in a house share not a bedsit.

Because support workers are supposed to develop their clients' life skills so that they can live and work with others in as independent a manner as feasible? As UprootedSunflower demonstrates, this is not always an ambition that works out for everyone, but it tends to be the default plan (if only to demonstrate the need for a single person flat or a place in a supported living community).