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How much trouble could I be in for refusing to offer this person a tenancy?

224 replies

Imalreadytorn · 06/08/2024 20:02

Name change for this as I am aware that landlords aren’t always popular even under normal circumstances.
Please note I am posting in Legal for advice, not in AIBU.
Briefly I have had a room become available in a house share. Existing tenants have been there 4 - 6 years. They are a real mix, but get along well although I wouldn’t describe them as friends.
It’s a nice room and there’s been a lot of interest. So far no one has ticked all the boxes I think are necessary to gel with the other tenants.
I’ve had a viewing today and the applicant is clearly ND. A really nice person but spoke and walked about without stopping the whole time. I felt completely out of my depth after a viewing appointment which lasted about 5 times the usual length. Added to that there were numerous messages before the appointment ( 16 texts and calls during my 90 minutes journey there). Since the viewing I have had 12 text messages, even though I explained that I couldn’t make any decisions until I finished my appointments and got home, likely to be at least 9.00pm.
I’m not at my strongest right now, and even at my best I would struggle to meet the frequent need for information/ reassurance/ interaction from this individual.
One of the existing tenants who was in the shared area for part of the viewing has already messaged me expressing concern. ( he works incredibly long hours and the others know to give him space when he gets home exhausted).
The applicant has a housing support worker who has already called me ( I didn’t answer as driving) quite forcefully confirming that full rent will be met due to disability and is easily afforded due to PIP.
I cannot offer this person a tenancy, it’s unfair on the others, but I can’t deny that it is due to behaviour, which is clearly linked to disability.
Unfortunately I haven’t found a suitable tenant so the advertisement is still running.
I assume that I have no ‘defence’ and will just have to accept the consequences?
How likely is it that action will be taken?
I have 2 house share properties

OP posts:
Mummyratbag · 08/08/2024 12:09

I'd be taking screen shots of the numerous missed calls to send to anyone who was asking questions.

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 08/08/2024 12:11

Email the support worker back, factually explaining the volume of calls, messages and emails.

If you have time to make a thread on MN explaining how many calls you received to seek advice, you have time to send an email back with the same information. The support worker will then have the information that he or she needs to do their job, and will have no reason to contact you again.

Allthehorsesintheworld · 08/08/2024 12:11

I’d say the tenancy has been offered, close the ad for a week /fortnight then the tenant backed out and you re advertise.
In a house share it’s essential everyone gets on and it doesn’t really sound like this person would be comfortable sharing.

TruthorDie · 08/08/2024 12:12

Yampy · 08/08/2024 08:23

The level of phone calls & messages you have been bombarded with is insane, it’s just sheer harassment, I’d be putting in a complaint about the support worker.

This. Support worker should be more professional. Plus not feed in and join in with the incessant ringing / texting. You and your tenants have massively dodged a bullet. If they are like that at this stage, they will be a nightmare to live with

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 08/08/2024 12:14

Sitdownrosa · 08/08/2024 11:53

The danger of being accused of discrimination is because you ARE discriminating against them because of a protected characteristic.

You seem to think that it would be in some way unfair to accuse you of it, but that's exactly what you're doing.

No she’s not, she’s discriminating (in the sense of making a choice rather than in the sense of being prejudiced) based on behaviour.
Discriminating based on the protected characteristic would be if the person had behaved perfectly reasonably but op was going ‘they’re autistic, I don’t want to have an autistic tenant.’

buildersteacup · 08/08/2024 12:16

What would you say when rejecting a potential tenant who was not neuro diverse? Just say that. Having a disability does not mean a person has a right to anything they want

This. Having a disability doesnt mean you are guaranteed to get everything you want and people MUST give you preference for the job or room because you are disabled. It means, you should have as equal opportunity as anyone else to apply, be interviewed, and be equally considered for whatever it is (so the criteria should be the same for everyone). It also means if you are the best fit, you shouldn't be turned down on the sole basis that you are disabled.

This person isnt the best fit and OP has also turned down others who are not disabled for similar reasons hence it is not discriminatory.

TruthorDie · 08/08/2024 12:20

buildersteacup · 08/08/2024 12:16

What would you say when rejecting a potential tenant who was not neuro diverse? Just say that. Having a disability does not mean a person has a right to anything they want

This. Having a disability doesnt mean you are guaranteed to get everything you want and people MUST give you preference for the job or room because you are disabled. It means, you should have as equal opportunity as anyone else to apply, be interviewed, and be equally considered for whatever it is (so the criteria should be the same for everyone). It also means if you are the best fit, you shouldn't be turned down on the sole basis that you are disabled.

This person isnt the best fit and OP has also turned down others who are not disabled for similar reasons hence it is not discriminatory.

Edited

Errr this. I’m neurodiverse but don’t expect or get everything l want

Plus household dynamics are important. The potential tenant sounds hard work and annoying. I don’t want to have to live with someone who constantly rings and calls me as their fellow tenant. I would ask them not to do it and if they did then l would block them

OneSugar1 · 08/08/2024 12:22

It’s a matter of whether the OP is discriminating unfairly. In this instance it seems that she is not. She is not discriminating arbitrarily. She has valid reasons not to choose this person as a tenant based on the unreasonable amount of texts and calls from the applicant and their support worker. In your position OP I’d keep any communication to a bare minimum. Simply say that they have not been successful and the matter is now at an end.

Pudmyboy · 08/08/2024 12:28

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 08/08/2024 08:52

And if they refuse to move out? @Imalreadytorn have you checked the support worker is genuine as their behaviour is highly unprofessional with the harassment of you!

This is a good point! Usually, if you are trying to contact a social worker, you get voicemail or if an office number, they are not there ( due to massive caseloads) so the intensity of this person is unusual.... does the email that was sent have any official logos or office contact details so you could check (if you had to, because they won't leave you alone)

Sitdownrosa · 08/08/2024 12:31

woodlandstream · 08/08/2024 12:00

The danger of being accused of discrimination is because you ARE discriminating against them because of a protected characteristic

Is it though? if the tenant had behaved with appropriate boundaries and then the OP had found out they were ND and then changed her mind that would be discrimination. However, her discomfort is based not on any potential diagnosis but rather on the inappropriate behaviour which could be termed as harassment. Surely you dont have to put up with being harassed simply because someone is ND?

She's the one who said they were ND, so no. She believes the person is disabled, and she's asking how to get away with discrimination on the basis of that disability. Your argument doesn't really fly when op has already gone into detail about why she very much believes they're disabled and how that disability is causing HER inconvenience.

This expectation that disabled people must behave in socially accepted ways in order to be treated fairly is EXACTLY why this legislation exists. Because it's not always possible for disabled people to behave in ways that make neurotypicals comfortable and yet they're still entitled to protection under the law and even places to live.

If you want to be a landlord, you've got to be prepared that a disabled person is just as entitled to rent your place as anyone else is and the law says so.

TemuSpecialBuy · 08/08/2024 12:33

at this point I’d call to reiterate to the care worker they aren’t suitable and request they and the client stop contacting you l.

then send an email listing the number of calls messages etc and say any further comms will be considered harassment and dealt with as such

Phoebefail · 08/08/2024 12:40

Do you know for certain that there is a specific Law that you are concerned about infringing?
We are landlords but not of an HMO. So I have an understanding at a general level.

Ansjovis · 08/08/2024 12:41

Sitdownrosa · 08/08/2024 12:31

She's the one who said they were ND, so no. She believes the person is disabled, and she's asking how to get away with discrimination on the basis of that disability. Your argument doesn't really fly when op has already gone into detail about why she very much believes they're disabled and how that disability is causing HER inconvenience.

This expectation that disabled people must behave in socially accepted ways in order to be treated fairly is EXACTLY why this legislation exists. Because it's not always possible for disabled people to behave in ways that make neurotypicals comfortable and yet they're still entitled to protection under the law and even places to live.

If you want to be a landlord, you've got to be prepared that a disabled person is just as entitled to rent your place as anyone else is and the law says so.

There's a world of difference in between a person not behaving according to neurotypical standards and harassment. If the OP were here, for example, saying that she didn't want to rent the room as during the viewing the person had asked lots of questions that she perceived to be trivial, I would not support her refusing to let the room on that basis. That's not what is happening here though. Being disabled does not give a person a licence to harass someone.

woodlandstream · 08/08/2024 12:49

how that disability is causing HER inconvenience

It's not merely an inconvenience though is it? An inconvenience is leaving the top off the toothpaste or forgetting to put the bins out. If I was being called 7 times at midnight and texted 16 times in a row that would detrimentally affect my mental health. Why is my mental health less important?

altmember · 08/08/2024 12:52

OpizpuHeuvHiyo · 08/08/2024 11:52

You'd be right if it wasn't for the fact that a large proportion of the people who can't afford to buy their home are only in that position because of landlords driving up prices. Landlords aren't the only factor that have created this problem but they are part of the cause. I don't think OP is doing anything wrong because under the current regulations if OP didn't do it another landlord would, but tougher regulations that made it more difficult and less profitable to be a landlord would drive down property prices and help a lot of people to buy a home.

Except landlords are currently selling up faster than they're buying (mainly due to tougher regulations along with interest rates driving down profitability), so your argument doesn't hold. Small landlords are also being forced out of the BTL market and big faceless, greedy US investment companies are buying up UK housing stock instead. So in a few years time rents will be significantly higher. Meanwhile, people who can't afford to buy now, still won't be able to afford to buy.

ForestForever · 08/08/2024 13:04

At this point if the support worker contacts you I would firmly say that as you have told them both that the answer is no because you feel that she is unsuitable, that any further communication from them or their client is an invasion of your privacy. Therefore it becomes grounds for contacting the local authority that she works for and police as harassment. This should be a deterrent. She may have a disability but it doesn’t mean she can legally harass you because of it either directly or through her support worker. Her extreme inappropriate level of contact with calls and texts disturbing your sleep and basic enjoyment of day-to-day daily tasks makes her massively unsuitable. You also have your other tenants welfare to think of and they don’t deserve to be subjected to her lack of social boundaries and harassment either for any reason disability or not.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/08/2024 13:08

It's not always possible for disabled people to behave in ways that make neurotypicals comfortable and yet they're still entitled to protection under the law and even places to live

Absolutely, and rightly so; however that doesn't mean they're entitled to a place where their needs can't be met, or even that it would be a sensible choice for them - though undoubtably it would help the support worker to get another one off the books

Understandably a lot of the focus has been on what OP/the other tenants want, but does anyone really imagine it would be pleasant for this prospective tenant to be with folk who don't want them there and might perhaps be less than welcoming or patient with incessant requests?

Beautiful3 · 08/08/2024 13:10

I agree with you completely and you did the right thing. I've worked with adults with learning difficulties for 8 years, and I would never live with one. They are lovely but draining. You shouldn't email back nor discuss the reasons with the support worker, other wise you might be sued due to disability discrimination. Don't give them any evidence. Say nothing and ignore them both.

altmember · 08/08/2024 13:11

Sitdownrosa · 08/08/2024 12:31

She's the one who said they were ND, so no. She believes the person is disabled, and she's asking how to get away with discrimination on the basis of that disability. Your argument doesn't really fly when op has already gone into detail about why she very much believes they're disabled and how that disability is causing HER inconvenience.

This expectation that disabled people must behave in socially accepted ways in order to be treated fairly is EXACTLY why this legislation exists. Because it's not always possible for disabled people to behave in ways that make neurotypicals comfortable and yet they're still entitled to protection under the law and even places to live.

If you want to be a landlord, you've got to be prepared that a disabled person is just as entitled to rent your place as anyone else is and the law says so.

Except that this is a house share, where other tenants are involved. It's not the LL being prejudiced, they need to find a tenant that's compatible with the rest of the household. This applicant clearly isn't.

From a broader perspective, what's the normal process for adding a new tenant into a house share like this? If the LL takes on vetting responsibilities are they then not also responsible for any issues between the tenants of the share? Surely the existing tenants all have to approve a new person joining them (or at least have a veto to be able to reject someone they feel is unsuitable)? Is it really just down the landlord to pick and mix and hope there's no fallout?

If I was in the OP's position (which I'd like to think I wouldn't be as per above), then I don't think I'd make too much of a thing to the support worker about why I didn't think they were suitable, but reason it's because the existing tenants of the house share didn't approve this applicant. A LL can't really turn down an prospective tenant because of their personality, but the other tenants of a house share surely can? And then you can potentially fall back on the endless and late night phone calls as further evidence that the applicant isn't going to fit in with the existing tenants (being a LL carries some responsibility to answer the phone at all hours, in case of a genuine emergency, so it's a little difficult to use purely from a LL's perspective).

It does genuinely sound like this person needs to be in some kind of supported/sheltered accommodation, not just palmed off onto a house share where other tenants end up being unpaid care/support workers. Perhaps it's the case that their support worker knows this, but needs to evidence it to be able to recommend that route? And feedback from a private landlord saying the person isn't suitable tenant for a house share might be useful?

user1492771818 · 08/08/2024 13:15

When I was in a house share I used to hide in my room or hang around outside all the lights were out. I can't imagine why they would want to share being ND.

user8889932902 · 08/08/2024 13:18

It does genuinely sound like this person needs to be in some kind of supported/sheltered accommodation, not just palmed off onto a house share where other tenants end up being unpaid care/support workers

Agreed. If this person needs that much support its simply not going to work for anyone.

The tenants are going to get stressed out by constant calls or texts or requests for help late at night when they have to sleep for work. The prospective tenant is going to be distressed that they are getting impatient with them and not able to help them in the way that they want/need. Its a disaster waiting to happen and noone is going to end up happy with this situation, least of all the prospective tenant.

RosesAndHellebores · 08/08/2024 13:19

I think the final sentence of the last post is spot on. If you are pressed further I think you can add that you are not able to operationally suppprt the adjustments the prospective tenant needs in the context of your available time and note the volume and times of texts and calls received which have made you feel harassed. You hope the person finds somewhere suitable but you feel a sheltered environment with trained staff available would be more suitable and neither you not yiur tenants can offer that level of support.

WhamBamThankU · 08/08/2024 13:26

Surely the fact their additional needs weren't disclosed it means you can't be rejecting them on those grounds?

Bromptotoo · 08/08/2024 13:29

When I was in a house share 40+ years ago the residents selected a prospective tenant and the Landlord then vetted, took up references etc.

One hopeful was rejected due to his having left previous places with arrears and multiple CCJs.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/08/2024 13:30

It does genuinely sound like this person needs to be in some kind of supported/sheltered accommodation, not just palmed off onto a house share where other tenants end up being unpaid care/support workers. Perhaps it's the case that their support worker knows this, but needs to evidence it to be able to recommend that route? And feedback from a private landlord saying the person isn't suitable tenant for a house share might be useful?

That's an interesting perspective about the support worker perhaps needing to evidence the difficulties in finding suitable housing, @altmember
I'd normally expect them to base this on their own assessments, but guess that a little "we tried this and it didn't work" can't hurt