Enforcement letter, no envelope, threats and more (all evidenced + call recording)

[ballen08]

Hello,

I would like to gather thoughts on an interesting situation that took place last summer.

I left my home where I rent a room in a shared house on 16th June 2023 to travel up to an airport I wouldn't have been able to get to if setting off in the morning of the 17th for a 6am flight.

My trip was for 5-6 weeks.

On 17th July 2023, I received a whatsapp message from one of the other tenants in the property, with a photo of a printed, hand finished letter, from an enforcement agent. This is attached with private info blocked out.

I asked why they opened my personal mail, they said they didn't, and that it was posted like that.

I immediately, whilst recording the call, phoned the agent who's mobile and name was on the letter.

I gave the reference number and address, confirmed my name and asked...

"I would like to know why you posted a letter through the door without an envelope, disclosing my personal private matters to people I live with that I am in no way related to".

His response was "It's a single address, that's why, so, what are you going to do about paying this?"

He said he came because I ignored their previous letter. The original letter was posted on a date that I would not have been in the country to receive it.

I said I wanted to get back home, look at all my letters, correspondence, and that I will make contact once I have had a chance to, as I was abroad and couldn't do that.

He said "being abroad does not stop you from making a payment".

The interesting thing is that the council who instructed them had received payments earlier that year, and I had contacted them to ask them to explain a £100 charge that was added over Christmas and New Year because I missed the payment by 6 days, paying it the day I returned to the UK after 3 weeks away.

They didn't reply.

The agent told me if I do not make payment or have the council hold the enforcement by Friday (4 days after), he would get a warrant issued for my arrest upon return to the UK. These were the final words before he ended he call.

Quite a serious threat, I would say.

So, this letter.

It stated my name and address, of course, others in the property knew this anyway, but it disclosed an amount of money outstanding, who to, their company and threats to revisit to remove goods or collect the money in full.

This letter had no date filled in. It had written by hand the total amount to recover, leaving blank the section which says "including an enforcement fee of £......".

I believe letters of this nature should be correct, clear and understandable, of which this is not.

Paragraph 52. Taking control of goods: National Standards (Ministry of Justice)

52. Enforcement agents should, so far as it is practical, avoid disclosing the purpose of their visit to anyone other than the debtor or a third party nominated by the debtor, for example an advice agency representative. Where the debtor is not seen, the relevant documents must be left at the address in a sealed envelope addressed to the debtor.

The agent had a pen, but surely, he should have, or been supplied with envelopes? If not, imagine how many others he has disclosed private information to.

I called the enforcement office to complain about this, they said the agent said he did post it with an envelope (not knowing I recorded the call and had evidence contradicting this).

I managed to contact the council and get this stopped, £100 fee removed, and the amount emailed to me that was correct, but upon returning to the UK, the mood towards me changed, I felt alone and not welcome in communal spaces in the property, and those living there were different around me than before. Before we were having a lot of laughs, cooking together etc. Due to my previous history of agoraphobia, I had to leave and find alternative accommodation to avoid a serious situation developing surrounding my mental health. Within days, I was gone, without an address, renting rooms on booking.com and airbnb.com temporarily, whilst initially staying with a friend just north of Camden in London for a few nights to help me.

My circumstances changed, my anxiety increased and I could not deal with nor afford any repayments to the council, nor could I deal with taking action against the enforcement agent.

27th March 2024, I get an email from the same agent, with the enforcement instructed by the council for them to collect, stating words "So far,your lack of response has been treated as an oversight, but now it will be considered an active choice.".

I immediately contact them by email, this time providing all of my evidence, including the recording of the admission no envelope was use, the letter posted, references to Paragraph 52, my own threats of reporting them to the ICO, CIVEA, UKAS, the council they are trying to collect from and more.

So, I gave a figure for settlement without legal interception, and stated if not settled by this date, it would be £100 per day on top.

Wednesday 3rd April they reply saying they have moved this to stage 2 along with their complaints procedure, which says within 7 days provide an outcome and conclusion and a decision for this.

They also emailed saying they expect to resolve this by end of Monday 8th April 2023 (wrong year!).

Despite my calls to speak to the person dealing with it several times, and them being in the office but "unavailable to speak", at exactly to the minute 5pm I get an email saying due to the Easter holidays, they have been unable to speak with certain people, anticipating resolution by Friday 12th April. This of course angered me.

I emailed them on Friday 12th 3 times and called 3 times, asking for an update and wishing to speak to the person dealing with it (who I knew was there but "busy"), and if they were planning on wanting to extend or not reply, or settle, it would trigger me to resolve this by alternative means.

No response at all.

Yesterday I was doing some more research and found this...

Bailiffs can only operate in England and Wales. The law further states the debtor must be given a Notice of Enforcement and if that notice was posted to your UK address while you are abroad, then the law says the notice has not been given or "served" because evidence that you are abroad is grounds that you have not been given that notice. Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978.

My understanding is that, as soon as I made them aware that I was abroad, and therefore could not physically open the mail they sent whilst I was abroad in the 4 weeks prior to the date they attended, that they should know that they cannot pursue this at the stage of a visit, and would need to send the original notice of enforcement again when I am back in the UK?

I have my train ticket bookings, flight bookings, flight boarding passes, accommodation bookings and more for the full period.

The only reason I knew they came, is because of the breach in disclosing my private and financial matters to someone else living in the same property, who thought to contact me, partly because they were scared someone would return to try and take things or cause them stress by knocking on the door. A tenant who rented the ground floor room next to the door, which of course, would cause anxiety.

In their response to me anticipating a resolution by that Monday or Friday, they requested my new address as information they have received suggests I no longer live in the property, and would be the reason for not replying to their letters.

I emailed simply confirming I do not live there since shortly after returning to the UK. I also showed (with specific property names and photos blurred out, leaving only the town/county) of booking.com and airbnb bookings in and around the area I was living in before, as evidence, as it would be strange to make these bookings if I lived 15 minutes away.

I also believe I have grounds to take legal action against the council who I also complained to about the GDPR breach initially, who offered this back to the company who made the initial breach, to recover the amount. Should the council have taken action when I made a complaint and ensured that this same company was not to be involved in any recovery action?

If anyone has any experience of any of this, or anything that could help in my case in taking legal action against them, or if anyone reading is a practising legal representative and believes I have a case they would be more than happy to take on, please let me know.

Thoughts and opinions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Mr A

"A minor embarrassment".

You weren't the one dealing with the situation, sorry.

You do not know what I was feeling and how I felt upon returning to a property where others felt uneasy about me being there and had me feel I was no longer welcome.

So yes, it is worth the agro.

"The bill you have been sent will show the instalments payable and the date the payment must be received by the Council, which is normally the 8th of the month. If you miss a payment or payment is late, we will take action to recover the money.
A reminder notice will be issued for any unpaid instalment. The overdue amount must then be paid. If you bring your account up to date within seven days of the reminder your monthly instalments will continue as shown on your bill.

If the overdue amount is not paid within seven days, a Final Notice will be sent, you will lose the right to pay by instalments and the full amount remaining becomes payable. No further reminders will be sent. If the full amount is not then paid, a Magistrates Court summons will be issued and costs of £80.00 will be added to the Council Tax that is due.
If a further instalment is not paid on time, another reminder will be sent. Again, if you bring your account up to date within seven days of this reminder your monthly instalments will continue as shown on your bill.

If the overdue amount is not paid, a Final Notice will be sent, you will lose the right to pay by instalments and the full amount remaining becomes payable. No further reminders will be sent. If the full amount is not then paid, a Magistrates Court summons will be issued and costs of £80 will be added to the Council Tax that is due."

Everything was paid on time. Had not one reminder.

Hence why it was rectified upon my contact in July after I had already requested to know why this happened. I paid it on the 6th day after the day I would usually pay it.

If you cannot see how there was a breach, then I cannot help you there, as disclosing private information about another person to others without good reason or authorisation to do so by the person it is intended for, is a breach of GDPR.

If your bank decided one day to post your bank statement, or your doctor a medical diagnosis, through the door without an envelope, and you had tenants in the property, or you were a tenant yourself and someone else picked this up and read it, I'm sure you'd be very displeased with this.

Definitely not too late to go back to them if I have made a complaint to them, which I have in writing, stating the breach, misconduct and threats, and how the company is doing things incorrectly whilst acting on behalf of them, with the evidence I have.

I can guarantee you that alone, I will get the council to withdraw this from this enforcement agent or have the enforcement agent settle.

"Enforcement agents should, so far as it is practical, avoid disclosing the purpose of their visit to anyone other than the debtor or a third party nominated by the debtor, for example an advice agency representative. Where the debtor is not seen, the relevant documents must be left at the address in a sealed envelope addressed to the debtor."

Are you telling me enforcement agents who handle private information don't and can't carry envelopes in their cars?

This is from a MOJ published document. If it goes to court, the enforcement agent cannot defend themselves. They'll be laughed at for not carrying envelopes and not going by the training they should have given.

UKAS have already told me over the phone that agents must do this, and when ready, to file a complaint with them to have it looked into, attaching the evidence I have.

I think they, who give accreditations, (ISO 9001 to be precise) and do so after the applicant shows that they can follow GDPR guidelines along with other practises, would know that it doesn't matter if someone owes anything, they have to follow protocols. They did not.

"In practice, these also include all data which are or can be assigned to a person in any kind of way. For example, the telephone, credit card or personnel number of a person, account data, number plate, appearance, customer number or address are all personal data."

I rest my case.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/personal-information-what-is-it/what-is-personal-information-a-guide/

Information disclosed related to an identifiable individual.

• "What is the meaning of ‘relates to’?Information must ‘relate to’ the identifiable individual to be personal data.
• This means that it does more than simply identifying them – it must concern the individual in some way.
• To decide whether or not data relates to an individual, you may need to consider:
• the content of the data – is it directly about the individual or their activities?;
• the purpose you will process the data for; and
• the results of or effects on the individual from processing the data.
• Data can reference an identifiable individual and not be personal data about that individual, as the information does not relate to them.
• There will be circumstances where it may be difficult to determine whether data is personal data. If this is the case, as a matter of good practice, you should treat the information with care, ensure that you have a clear reason for processing the data and, in particular, ensure you hold and dispose of it securely.
• Inaccurate information may still be personal data if it relates to an identifiable individual.".

Sorry to have to correct you, but the information relates to me, an identifiable individual, and it is not for others to have been made aware of.

My personal information was disclosed. Are you going to deny this?

A friend helping someone dealing with a difficult situation is not sofa surfing to avoid them catching up with me, considering I had it retracted the following day by the council in writing, and was still out of the country. Quite the wrong assumption you have made there.

You clearly have difficulty in processing information, as with the enforcement agent.

I used that time at a friend's place to assess options, book room viewings and have a bit of a social life before returning to work, actually. Why is that frowned upon?

If the council took you to court, which it sounds like they did, as they were passing on legal fees, your debt would likely be in the public domain, so I don't think would be subject to GDPR. If you think the council shouldn't have taken you to court you could go through their complaints procedure and ask for compensation. The bailiffs were acting on the information they had.

OP is it really worth all this hassle and grief and effort when you can just pay your bills like an adult and move on with your life.

such hard work.

If the balance has got to this stage, a reminder, final notice, summons and 14 day notice have already been sent to you regarding this balance. If you moved abroad and did not tell the council where you moved, these may have been sent to your last known address. The Council are not your mummy and daddy, they do so much but are not legally obliged to do everything. If you have a complaint with the enforcement agent, you will be advised to discuss this with them. The Council are not obliged to get involved or recall the debt.

If the debt is returned by the enforcement agent, you may be summonsed to committal court. They want to know why you haven't paid. Are you unable to pay or willfully refusing? These excuses show willful refusal. So you may be committed to prison.

Time to grow up OP.

1. Pay off your debt
2. Make a complaint to the ICO

Simple.

1 . If you want an actual legal opinion then post the pertinent facts (not feelings or what you think are mitigating circs) in legal, or see a solicitor. The latter is probably a better option because your ability to set out a reliable, linear narrative is not evident here.

2 . Debt collectors are not renowned for their sensitivity. They don’t see you as a person, just an entry in a ledger.

I hope your leg is better now.

Ok, now you have been clear with what you want- “I want from them an apology for their wrongdoings, a financial settlement for the stress and anxiety, and the situation I was put in by a fellow tenant being disclosed this information along with for the breach of private personal information”- youare not going to get it this, it isn’t the way English law works.

There is a lot of extraneous detail and I can see you are upset and perhaps have fragile mental health, but I can also see you stuck your head in the sand for a very long time (there is an half year gap between early 23 when you said you made payments and the bailiff letter).

You haven’t been clear on what you think is a gdpr breach, but the council can use whichever enforcement agency it wishes. You ignored a lot of letters/attempts to communicate, and are trying to hide behind various conflated issues.

You will not win this, council tax enforcement is perused very hard so if you were the responsible person just pay it, or at least talk to them before a problem develops- lesson for next time.

Just pay it and move on, you will not win this, nor should you, as you owe the money.

Gentle reminder, if you want people to help you in life, you need to start being a bit kinder and much less reactive and dismissive.
You came here asking for advice yet appear to not want to hear anyone who disagreed with you.
Just get the debt paid, all of this could have been avoided if you just paid

I was polite, and your reply to me wasn't. I'm out.

Pay your debt first

Complain to the ICO

If (by some miracle) you get financial recompense for the complaint, great.

But you still owe the debt!!

You knew it was due on 28th, but didn't pay till a week later. You knew you would be abroad, so should have paid before you left. Your fault OP

Omg get over i, stop whining ablut stationery and pay the bill. Or make an arrangement. It's not brain surgery is it.
No point in wasting your energy on an envelope.
If you can afford flights and private surgery I am sure you can also pay your bills.
What were you hoping? That everyone would agree with you? About an envelope?

Does the landlord live there?

You should have paid any money either owed or due when you were planning to be overseas before you left. You chose to go overseas knowing your payment would be late. You have caused these issues.

It's Irrelevant to what the bayliff did or didn't do with the envelope- yes I guess if you carry on complaining about it to the company its possible the agent might get in trouble depending on their company policy . However........ you will STILL need to pay that amount so suck it up and pay before further charges are added.
. I will also add there are probably thousands of people currently in your situation due to the cost of living crisis who through NO fault of their own cannot afford to pay their essential bills. I will reserve my sympathy for them.
Pay your bill and be grateful you are in a position to do so !!

If you left previous address with a ct outstanding it will have taken a while to track you down and unless you set up mail forwarding the letters and warnings may have gone astray. You could make a dsar to the council for copies of correspondence in relation to this, although ultimately you still need to pay outstanding amounts owed. What part of gdpr do you think has been broken, the identifying information in the letter would have already been known in the household,

Chooses to go abroad and PAY for surgery yet is quibbling over £100 bill, you couldn't make this up

Mate, just pay what you owe and move on. This really isn't worth the stress and effort.

1. pay your bill

2. complaint to the Council's DPO about the separate issue of their enforcement agent's practices. The ICO will expect you to have taken steps to resolve any complaint locally.

The letter should have been in an envelope. If you think that is grounds not to pay your outstanding bill, you're wrong.

(For anyone who has never worked with the general public, the OP is a perfect example of why it is very tiring.)

My experience is that Bailiffs don't use envelopes. People in a financial mess often don't open envelopes that look official; they're left on the mantelpiece or wherever. Experience of advising suggests that finding the Bailiff notice on the doormat actually gets people's heads up.

You sound like a nightmare

Just pay what you owe and stop making up excuses and trying to blame everyone else

The payment information you have posted is for the current year's Council tax. You say this is regarding council tax due on a previous property, so not current? This also says your payment is due by 8th of the month, not the 28th.

What is your payment agreement and schedule for the overdue council tax?