Enforcement letter, no envelope, threats and more (all evidenced + call recording)

[ballen08]

Hello,

I would like to gather thoughts on an interesting situation that took place last summer.

I left my home where I rent a room in a shared house on 16th June 2023 to travel up to an airport I wouldn't have been able to get to if setting off in the morning of the 17th for a 6am flight.

My trip was for 5-6 weeks.

On 17th July 2023, I received a whatsapp message from one of the other tenants in the property, with a photo of a printed, hand finished letter, from an enforcement agent. This is attached with private info blocked out.

I asked why they opened my personal mail, they said they didn't, and that it was posted like that.

I immediately, whilst recording the call, phoned the agent who's mobile and name was on the letter.

I gave the reference number and address, confirmed my name and asked...

"I would like to know why you posted a letter through the door without an envelope, disclosing my personal private matters to people I live with that I am in no way related to".

His response was "It's a single address, that's why, so, what are you going to do about paying this?"

He said he came because I ignored their previous letter. The original letter was posted on a date that I would not have been in the country to receive it.

I said I wanted to get back home, look at all my letters, correspondence, and that I will make contact once I have had a chance to, as I was abroad and couldn't do that.

He said "being abroad does not stop you from making a payment".

The interesting thing is that the council who instructed them had received payments earlier that year, and I had contacted them to ask them to explain a £100 charge that was added over Christmas and New Year because I missed the payment by 6 days, paying it the day I returned to the UK after 3 weeks away.

They didn't reply.

The agent told me if I do not make payment or have the council hold the enforcement by Friday (4 days after), he would get a warrant issued for my arrest upon return to the UK. These were the final words before he ended he call.

Quite a serious threat, I would say.

So, this letter.

It stated my name and address, of course, others in the property knew this anyway, but it disclosed an amount of money outstanding, who to, their company and threats to revisit to remove goods or collect the money in full.

This letter had no date filled in. It had written by hand the total amount to recover, leaving blank the section which says "including an enforcement fee of £......".

I believe letters of this nature should be correct, clear and understandable, of which this is not.

Paragraph 52. Taking control of goods: National Standards (Ministry of Justice)

52. Enforcement agents should, so far as it is practical, avoid disclosing the purpose of their visit to anyone other than the debtor or a third party nominated by the debtor, for example an advice agency representative. Where the debtor is not seen, the relevant documents must be left at the address in a sealed envelope addressed to the debtor.

The agent had a pen, but surely, he should have, or been supplied with envelopes? If not, imagine how many others he has disclosed private information to.

I called the enforcement office to complain about this, they said the agent said he did post it with an envelope (not knowing I recorded the call and had evidence contradicting this).

I managed to contact the council and get this stopped, £100 fee removed, and the amount emailed to me that was correct, but upon returning to the UK, the mood towards me changed, I felt alone and not welcome in communal spaces in the property, and those living there were different around me than before. Before we were having a lot of laughs, cooking together etc. Due to my previous history of agoraphobia, I had to leave and find alternative accommodation to avoid a serious situation developing surrounding my mental health. Within days, I was gone, without an address, renting rooms on booking.com and airbnb.com temporarily, whilst initially staying with a friend just north of Camden in London for a few nights to help me.

My circumstances changed, my anxiety increased and I could not deal with nor afford any repayments to the council, nor could I deal with taking action against the enforcement agent.

27th March 2024, I get an email from the same agent, with the enforcement instructed by the council for them to collect, stating words "So far,your lack of response has been treated as an oversight, but now it will be considered an active choice.".

I immediately contact them by email, this time providing all of my evidence, including the recording of the admission no envelope was use, the letter posted, references to Paragraph 52, my own threats of reporting them to the ICO, CIVEA, UKAS, the council they are trying to collect from and more.

So, I gave a figure for settlement without legal interception, and stated if not settled by this date, it would be £100 per day on top.

Wednesday 3rd April they reply saying they have moved this to stage 2 along with their complaints procedure, which says within 7 days provide an outcome and conclusion and a decision for this.

They also emailed saying they expect to resolve this by end of Monday 8th April 2023 (wrong year!).

Despite my calls to speak to the person dealing with it several times, and them being in the office but "unavailable to speak", at exactly to the minute 5pm I get an email saying due to the Easter holidays, they have been unable to speak with certain people, anticipating resolution by Friday 12th April. This of course angered me.

I emailed them on Friday 12th 3 times and called 3 times, asking for an update and wishing to speak to the person dealing with it (who I knew was there but "busy"), and if they were planning on wanting to extend or not reply, or settle, it would trigger me to resolve this by alternative means.

No response at all.

Yesterday I was doing some more research and found this...

Bailiffs can only operate in England and Wales. The law further states the debtor must be given a Notice of Enforcement and if that notice was posted to your UK address while you are abroad, then the law says the notice has not been given or "served" because evidence that you are abroad is grounds that you have not been given that notice. Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978.

My understanding is that, as soon as I made them aware that I was abroad, and therefore could not physically open the mail they sent whilst I was abroad in the 4 weeks prior to the date they attended, that they should know that they cannot pursue this at the stage of a visit, and would need to send the original notice of enforcement again when I am back in the UK?

I have my train ticket bookings, flight bookings, flight boarding passes, accommodation bookings and more for the full period.

The only reason I knew they came, is because of the breach in disclosing my private and financial matters to someone else living in the same property, who thought to contact me, partly because they were scared someone would return to try and take things or cause them stress by knocking on the door. A tenant who rented the ground floor room next to the door, which of course, would cause anxiety.

In their response to me anticipating a resolution by that Monday or Friday, they requested my new address as information they have received suggests I no longer live in the property, and would be the reason for not replying to their letters.

I emailed simply confirming I do not live there since shortly after returning to the UK. I also showed (with specific property names and photos blurred out, leaving only the town/county) of booking.com and airbnb bookings in and around the area I was living in before, as evidence, as it would be strange to make these bookings if I lived 15 minutes away.

I also believe I have grounds to take legal action against the council who I also complained to about the GDPR breach initially, who offered this back to the company who made the initial breach, to recover the amount. Should the council have taken action when I made a complaint and ensured that this same company was not to be involved in any recovery action?

If anyone has any experience of any of this, or anything that could help in my case in taking legal action against them, or if anyone reading is a practising legal representative and believes I have a case they would be more than happy to take on, please let me know.

Thoughts and opinions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Mr A

@ballen08 in all politeness op why ask people if you don't want to hear anything anyone has to say, argue back and be defensive?

The world works in such a way there are laws about GDPR and guidelines enforcement agents must follow but, it can all be ignored if you didn't make a payment?

Right, ok then.

Anyone sensible out there?

Because no one is actually reading it properly, and automatically assuming I was either on holiday, or that I lose my rights to my private information being kept private for not paying on time.

Businesses have guidelines to follow, they weren't followed.

But no one seems to acknowledge that bit.

His response was "It's a single address, that's why, so, what are you going to do about paying this?"

Here is your answer. It's not breaking GDPR. He posted it through your front door. The only potential you have here is that your landlord hasn't registered your house as an HMO. You literally have no other potential.

Sometimes in life the answer isn't what we like. Suck it up buttercup. All but one on this thread is sensible. I'll let you work out who.

If you know so much, why are you asking?

Also, sorry to make you look silly.

"who writes reminder letters anyway?"

followed by

"they only write 2 reminder letters in a year".

Your answer, councils do.

Perhaps reply with something that makes sense and doesn't contradict itself?

None of that matters. You didn't pay your council tax on time. They then proceeded to enforcement action when you failed to keep to the agreed repayment schedule.

I'd strongly recommend that you catch on to yourself and pay whilst it's only six hundred odd quid - penalties don't just include bailiffs entering and removing goods, they include bailiff fees (which can be substantial if they have to piss around trying to find you because you're trying to go off radar by staying with mates or booking hotels) and go up to and including imprisonment.

You will not win this one, varicose veins or not.

@ballen08 the house probably isn't registered as

Registered as HMO*

Well, no, because with a live-in landlord, it is slightly different.

He would have no idea who else resided at the property, or if I was still at the property. Hence why such information must be kept private and sealed.

GDPR guidelines don't matter? Then, what are they for?

The government's own guidelines state what must be adhered to by enforcement agents. It's there in black and white.

Are you in a position above the government to say it doesn't matter?

1. You haven't even quoted me correctly.
2. I asked who writes you reminders because despite you mentioning the council, you haven't actually (as far as I have scanned) confirmed it is council tax. It could be another bill.
3. Go fuck yourself.

The tenant is not the type to lie.

The enforcement agent, if you had read properly, admitted no envelope was used. This is in a recorded phone call so cannot be disputed.

The CT was in relation to a property I had previously rented before moving into this one 4 months before this incident took place.

I left because of the tension, the change in attitude towards me by those living there and seeing signs that could place my into a position where my mental health could deteriorate if I did not act swiftly.

What is the point in having a "legal matters" section if not to ask for advice from anyone who might know something?

Ask Mumsnet that, not me. I didn’t set it up.

I do know that no lawyer worth their registration would offer free advice on an anonymous internet forum based on the possibly selective and certainly biased posts of any individual. If you plan to fight this legally, get a lawyer and give them the whole picture, chapter and verse. People can pretend to be anything here.

I wasn't asking for a lawyer to give advice on an internet forum, but some people may have had similar experiences they can share, or work in environments where they know more than I do etc.

Knowing 'something' is not identical to 'telling me what I want to hear'.

You're liable for the council tax. You haven't paid it or kept to agreed repayments. You only get two reminders by Law in a year, which you would have had prior to a payment being due on 28th (as CT is charged/due on the 1st of each month).

So they're enforcing it. Once the bailiffs confirm they have been unable to recover the outstanding monies and fees, it moves from a civil offence to a criminal one. And you could receive a custodial sentence as a result.

Your complaints are not going to get you out of this hole. Because you are liable for CT and the other amounts. That is the Law.

Irrelevant - he only rented rooms to myself and one other in the property he lived in, knowing that a third room would mean needing to register as a HMO, so the agent has no grounds here.

You've written paragraphs upon paragraphs about a letter without an envelope. Am I missing something?

As someone's who's worked in civic enforcement there's nothing more irritating than this. So you've breached rules/law and you're worried about a letter not being to your liking? Pay up. And you're going to have to, sealed letter or not.

The council reinstructed enforcement to a company who I complained about to them about their breach and misconduct. Council has overlooked this.

Even if they have done something wrong, what are you hoping to get out of this?

You clearly owe them money. If you settle up they will stop chasing you and you can just get on with your life.

If you can afford private healthcare you can afford to pay this.

@ballen08 I asked whether it's about Council Tax because that's relevant to the enforcement powers including the possibility of gaol time.

I needed to know that in order to try and give you advice.

The council reinstructed enforcement

@ballen08 so what you are saying is you still haven't set up a payment plan or paid the debt off? It's a priority debt and must be dealt with. Forgot the envelope. You are focusing on the wrong thing.

You lot seem to think it is ok for someone to disclose information if you owe money.

I doesn't matter the reason for them coming to you, they are NOT the police nor have that power or authority.

I want from them an apology for their wrongdoings, a financial settlement for the stress and anxiety, and the situation I was put in by a fellow tenant being disclosed this information along with for the breach of private personal information.

What is wrong with that? Why should I pay anything to them if they're not adhering to the guidelines?

If you were in the position I was in, needing a operation (not deemed serious enough by the NHS to bump me up the long waiting list) to prevent pain, allowing me to be able to continue to work and do the job I was doing, to be able to continue to pay bills, have a roof over my head and what not, an operation was my only choice.

Going on to benefits until an operation would not have enabled me to pay my way.

If that isn't acceptable, what is? I had to make a choice, have the operation, take some holiday pay and some unpaid leave, and come back to work, or give up my job and put myself into a very difficult situation.

"Forget your health, it isn't important, pay your council tax"... which, I repeat, was recalculated and the £100 court fee taken off following my contact, as they didn't reply or deal with my first enquiry.

It shouldn't have gone to enforcement in the first place, hence why it then got retracted with an apology!!

Can you elaborate on what the GDPR breach was?

Also, when it comes to any sort of bill, once you miss the deadline, there’s a penalty. Why do you think council tax is different?