Enforcement letter, no envelope, threats and more (all evidenced + call recording)

[ballen08]

Hello,

I would like to gather thoughts on an interesting situation that took place last summer.

I left my home where I rent a room in a shared house on 16th June 2023 to travel up to an airport I wouldn't have been able to get to if setting off in the morning of the 17th for a 6am flight.

My trip was for 5-6 weeks.

On 17th July 2023, I received a whatsapp message from one of the other tenants in the property, with a photo of a printed, hand finished letter, from an enforcement agent. This is attached with private info blocked out.

I asked why they opened my personal mail, they said they didn't, and that it was posted like that.

I immediately, whilst recording the call, phoned the agent who's mobile and name was on the letter.

I gave the reference number and address, confirmed my name and asked...

"I would like to know why you posted a letter through the door without an envelope, disclosing my personal private matters to people I live with that I am in no way related to".

His response was "It's a single address, that's why, so, what are you going to do about paying this?"

He said he came because I ignored their previous letter. The original letter was posted on a date that I would not have been in the country to receive it.

I said I wanted to get back home, look at all my letters, correspondence, and that I will make contact once I have had a chance to, as I was abroad and couldn't do that.

He said "being abroad does not stop you from making a payment".

The interesting thing is that the council who instructed them had received payments earlier that year, and I had contacted them to ask them to explain a £100 charge that was added over Christmas and New Year because I missed the payment by 6 days, paying it the day I returned to the UK after 3 weeks away.

They didn't reply.

The agent told me if I do not make payment or have the council hold the enforcement by Friday (4 days after), he would get a warrant issued for my arrest upon return to the UK. These were the final words before he ended he call.

Quite a serious threat, I would say.

So, this letter.

It stated my name and address, of course, others in the property knew this anyway, but it disclosed an amount of money outstanding, who to, their company and threats to revisit to remove goods or collect the money in full.

This letter had no date filled in. It had written by hand the total amount to recover, leaving blank the section which says "including an enforcement fee of £......".

I believe letters of this nature should be correct, clear and understandable, of which this is not.

Paragraph 52. Taking control of goods: National Standards (Ministry of Justice)

52. Enforcement agents should, so far as it is practical, avoid disclosing the purpose of their visit to anyone other than the debtor or a third party nominated by the debtor, for example an advice agency representative. Where the debtor is not seen, the relevant documents must be left at the address in a sealed envelope addressed to the debtor.

The agent had a pen, but surely, he should have, or been supplied with envelopes? If not, imagine how many others he has disclosed private information to.

I called the enforcement office to complain about this, they said the agent said he did post it with an envelope (not knowing I recorded the call and had evidence contradicting this).

I managed to contact the council and get this stopped, £100 fee removed, and the amount emailed to me that was correct, but upon returning to the UK, the mood towards me changed, I felt alone and not welcome in communal spaces in the property, and those living there were different around me than before. Before we were having a lot of laughs, cooking together etc. Due to my previous history of agoraphobia, I had to leave and find alternative accommodation to avoid a serious situation developing surrounding my mental health. Within days, I was gone, without an address, renting rooms on booking.com and airbnb.com temporarily, whilst initially staying with a friend just north of Camden in London for a few nights to help me.

My circumstances changed, my anxiety increased and I could not deal with nor afford any repayments to the council, nor could I deal with taking action against the enforcement agent.

27th March 2024, I get an email from the same agent, with the enforcement instructed by the council for them to collect, stating words "So far,your lack of response has been treated as an oversight, but now it will be considered an active choice.".

I immediately contact them by email, this time providing all of my evidence, including the recording of the admission no envelope was use, the letter posted, references to Paragraph 52, my own threats of reporting them to the ICO, CIVEA, UKAS, the council they are trying to collect from and more.

So, I gave a figure for settlement without legal interception, and stated if not settled by this date, it would be £100 per day on top.

Wednesday 3rd April they reply saying they have moved this to stage 2 along with their complaints procedure, which says within 7 days provide an outcome and conclusion and a decision for this.

They also emailed saying they expect to resolve this by end of Monday 8th April 2023 (wrong year!).

Despite my calls to speak to the person dealing with it several times, and them being in the office but "unavailable to speak", at exactly to the minute 5pm I get an email saying due to the Easter holidays, they have been unable to speak with certain people, anticipating resolution by Friday 12th April. This of course angered me.

I emailed them on Friday 12th 3 times and called 3 times, asking for an update and wishing to speak to the person dealing with it (who I knew was there but "busy"), and if they were planning on wanting to extend or not reply, or settle, it would trigger me to resolve this by alternative means.

No response at all.

Yesterday I was doing some more research and found this...

Bailiffs can only operate in England and Wales. The law further states the debtor must be given a Notice of Enforcement and if that notice was posted to your UK address while you are abroad, then the law says the notice has not been given or "served" because evidence that you are abroad is grounds that you have not been given that notice. Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978.

My understanding is that, as soon as I made them aware that I was abroad, and therefore could not physically open the mail they sent whilst I was abroad in the 4 weeks prior to the date they attended, that they should know that they cannot pursue this at the stage of a visit, and would need to send the original notice of enforcement again when I am back in the UK?

I have my train ticket bookings, flight bookings, flight boarding passes, accommodation bookings and more for the full period.

The only reason I knew they came, is because of the breach in disclosing my private and financial matters to someone else living in the same property, who thought to contact me, partly because they were scared someone would return to try and take things or cause them stress by knocking on the door. A tenant who rented the ground floor room next to the door, which of course, would cause anxiety.

In their response to me anticipating a resolution by that Monday or Friday, they requested my new address as information they have received suggests I no longer live in the property, and would be the reason for not replying to their letters.

I emailed simply confirming I do not live there since shortly after returning to the UK. I also showed (with specific property names and photos blurred out, leaving only the town/county) of booking.com and airbnb bookings in and around the area I was living in before, as evidence, as it would be strange to make these bookings if I lived 15 minutes away.

I also believe I have grounds to take legal action against the council who I also complained to about the GDPR breach initially, who offered this back to the company who made the initial breach, to recover the amount. Should the council have taken action when I made a complaint and ensured that this same company was not to be involved in any recovery action?

If anyone has any experience of any of this, or anything that could help in my case in taking legal action against them, or if anyone reading is a practising legal representative and believes I have a case they would be more than happy to take on, please let me know.

Thoughts and opinions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Mr A

A potential GDPR breach isn’t a reason not to pay the debt. Pay your debt and then if you aren’t getting anywhere with your GDPR complaint report it to the ICO. You can’t try and use your issue with the enforcement agency as an excuse not to pay.

Why haven’t you paid it? Surely that would be the easiest thing here.
You agreed a payment plan and didn’t stick to it so they’ve added fees. They’ve sent around a bailiff which will add fees. You’ve spent on flying abroad for an operation. Now you’ve moved out and are sofa surfing and staying in airbnbs which has to be more expensive than staying put.

I’m not sure why your house mates would give a shit about an old debt, but maybe they feel uneasy knowing you don’t pay your way. Even now you’re trying to get out of paying. Perhaps they find you annoying and a bit obsessive as that’s how your coming across on here.

Pay up.

You say why should you pay - because you owe them!

Take up the GDPR breach & failure to follow process with the company that did it, and in the meantime keep paying what you owe to the people you owe it to. The money owed and the issues you’ve had are separate issues. Follow the correct procedures to deal with each separately or you’re going to end up owing even more.

OP you are incredibly unlikely to get a financial settlement out of this. It feels to me (& the other posters on this thread) that you are trying to justify not having paid by fixating on this no envelope issue. Didn’t you already say you’d had an apology anyway? I’ve had some issues with the council in the past (relating to SEN support for DD) & it’s incredibly difficult to get them to take accountability for anything or to get an apology. The best you can hope for is to get them off your back (by paying!).

What is wrong with that? Why should I pay anything to them if they're not adhering to the guidelines?
Seriously, op, what is the bloody matter with you? 🤦🏼‍♀️
You pay it because it's a debt you owe. Just like the rest of us.

It seems like you need to deal with this as two separate issues. Firstly, you need to pay the debt so that no further enforcement action is taken which would add to it.
Then you can concentrate on dealing with your complaint about how you feel your case has been handled separately.
The debt is a separate issue to the handling of the enforcement. Even if they have bungled the enforcement, you don’t get to not pay the debt.

HMO and council tax? How's that supposed to work? Is the landlord not responsible?

You owed them before any letter, so just pay up. You are clearly a CF.

Sorry- I doubt you're going to win- you have been late, several times now in paying an outstanding bill- and you are again deliberately not paying it, because you don't like the way they've approached it )bailiffs) you said yourself you've had three overseas trips for an operation you've paid for- so pay your bill and then lodge a complaint if you think it's warranted. Quibbling about you were 'only' 6 days late in payment is focusing on the wrong thing- indeed you seem fixated on the 'wrongness' of the bailiffs action, instead of your own. Pay the bill, accept you've been in the wrong, and then lodge a complaint in the manner you can if you feel their actions have been unfair.

The arrears are for a bill unpaid at his previous home, not the HMO.

This is just displacements activity on your part OP.

You've messed up by not paying your council tax. Rather than admit responsibility and sort it out, you're blaming the debt collection agency by focusing on something unrelated.

Pay up and moved on.

They're two separate issues.

1. your Council tax payment. That needs paying whatever.
2. possible GDPR breach. That needs taking up with the ICO - but you will still owe the council tax.

I would expect any official letters to come in an envelope, to be fair. I live alone, but occasionally I get misdeliveries - if that happens, I shouldn't be able to read the letter, as it should be clear that it's for the next street over, or 10 houses down this road - same as if they received in error something for me.

It was paid within a reasonable time frame, and the first one missed.

They disclosed my private matters, financial, who the debt is in relation to etc.

They must not disclose the nature of the visit to anyone other than myself, by law, unless the other parties have been authorised to receive this information on my behalf. No one has been authorised - i.e. I have not said they can discuss it with anyone else.

Speak to CAB. They will tell you what rights bailiffs and debt collection agents have.

Of course, I am not disputing owing the council, this is a matter about the enforcement agent's conduct and breach.

If I ever received anything not addressed to me, and there is an address on the back of the envelope, I write "return to sender - wrong address" or similar, and pop it back in the post.

Either way, I pop it back, because it is nothing to do with me, and it might go to a company who are contracted to open mail without an address on the back, to ensure it gets back to the recipient.

The council did not deal with my GDPR complaint, nor did the enforcement agent. It should have been and wasn't.

The address I moved to was not a HMO, my rent included all bills. The previous address I rented fully and was responsible for all bills.

It is not a HMO if the live in landlord has only 2 additional tenants. If had rented out his third empty room, then he would have had to register, and he knew that. He also wanted to keep it free for his parents and family to visit who didn't live local, or any guests we asked permission to stay for 2-3 nights (as he was open to us having guests and it being a sociable house), him being a respected teacher for 30+ years and knowing it is important to see familiar faces regularly. For example, the tenant who discovered this letter had a daughter with boyfriend who lived 3 hours away, who came once every 3 or 4 weekends.

I had 2 months remaining on the CT bill, I requested to know why an amount (later retracted - upon my contact following the enforcement visit) was added.

Once I moved in mid-March, the final bill was forwarded to my new address, this is what had the £100 added to it, and I wanted to know why, it had "court fees" or something on it. I called them on 22nd March, raising the issue and was told it would be looked into and responded to. I received nothing.

I had no response and I wanted to know why before paying any further amounts, as I have the right to dispute an incorrect bill, no?

Evidence of this being retracted after shows that they, the council, made the error there.

The enforcement should not have been instructed, as indicated by the retraction of the fees, an apology for the error and a new revised bill issued showing only the CT outstanding, and no court fees etc.

So, an instruction that should not have been instructed, a visit that should not have been a visit, a breach that should not have been a breach had they not have been instructed, and threats I should not have received had they not have been instructed.

Can you see the errors and what could have been avoided here?

Had they not added a fee for being 6 days late (FIRST TIME), and no reminder letter, I wouldn't have temporarily stopped payments.

I made payment on 3rd Jan, 28th Jan, 28th Feb, and received the new bill on 22nd March, and questioned it the day I received it.

Had they not added a fee for being 6 days late (FIRST TIME), and no reminder letter, I wouldn't have temporarily stopped payments.

But you were late. 1 day, 6 days. It's an automated process, first time or not. My council tells me in March what every payment for every month is, amount and date, for the coming financial year. It's up to me to pay on those dates. (In practice, it's automated by direct debit.)

If there was an error, you should still pay, and then get future payments adjusted if you end up over paying - rather than stop payments.

Late is late. It doesn’t matter that you were just a few days late and it was your first time. You were late, that’s all that is relevant here.

Council tax is notorious for the way it recovers money. Fully appreciate you wouldn’t know that but you were late.

I also can’t see how there was a GDPR breach.

This!

They can Op & they have. Pay your bills on time next tome & it won't be an issue again.

What an absolute storm in a teacup. Who can be bothered getting so het up about something like this?

Maybe just pay your bills on time and then this sort of thing won't happen. It doesn't matter what your reason was for leaving the country, if you owe money sort out the payment before you leave, or pay online.

Is still really worth the agro?

You are obviously incredibly upset about this.

The question isn't really did the company unlawfully reveal to your ex-housemates/landlord that you owed a debt. Or that £100 was added (you believe incorrectly) to the debt.

The real question is why are you so disproportionately upset about this and spending your time and energy trying to deflect your pain/discomfort into getting an apology from the bailiffs? If that's what you want, it's very unclear what is going on here, but it's clear you are unable to shrug off a minor embarrassment (your housemates/landlord seeing you owe a fairly small debt).
Why is that do you think?

What is it that you hope to achieve, OP? I don't understand what outcome(s) you are looking for.

You can make a complaint to ICO if you believe your personal data was breached. I'd argue that not keeping the amount of money you owed or the nature of the letter confidential is more a matter of then not acting sensitively and discretely, than a breach of your personal data. Your personal data on the letter is the bits you have redacted - your name, address etc. The rest of the words and numbers on the letter are not personal data in the eyes of GDPR law. If your housemates know your name and address (because you all live there and you get post there) and that's all the personal data in the letter, I don't think you will get anywhere claiming it is a breach of GDPR.

Indiscrete, insensitive, yes - but those aren't against the law.

Not do I think the council or anybody else is required to give you warnings before issuing overdue charges if you don't settle a bill in time. You may feel they were heavy-handed in their approach, and that the fine is excessive, but again I think that's a matter of opinion rather than a legal issue.

If you feel that the council have breached their own written and published policies, then by all means follow their complaints procedure. I'd ask again though - what outcome are you hoping to achieve if you do this?

I'd ask again though - what outcome are you hoping to achieve if you do this?

The OP has already said he wants compensation for what this has done to his mental health.

Meanwhile sofa surfing so they can’t catch up with him.

Stop looking for loopholes OP and sort yourself out.

You're stuffed if you've got to that stage, you're going to have to pay the bailiffs the money in full to get them off your back. Far too late now to go back to the council, it's way beyond that.

Quibbling about envelopes is irrelevant, you're just wasting time and all the while the debt is increasing. Just get it paid. There's really nothing else you can do.