House right to stay after someone dies

[Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain]

My DM lives with my stepdad and has done for years now. They’re not married. House is in DM’s name as she bought it and paid off mortgage early too.

Plan on her death is to leave house 3 ways to me, DB and stepdad - that’s in her will. It’s a big Victorian house in a now desirable area and stepdad wouldn’t be able to buy us out. He’s 10 years younger than her.

I had no idea until I asked her recently that the house is still in her sole name and she has no intention of either marrying him, civil partnership or putting in both their names. DM was married and divorced twice in the past, so was my real dad (3x) and so was her DM (my nana). There were issues with legacies and wills in the past in our family on DM’s side. Me and stepdad I won’t lie have crossed swords in past, he’s sort of ok now. He goes from being charming to very sarcastic and sometimes unpleasant to me for no reason when I visit. DM and me just accept that’s the way he is and he won’t change now. He’s also been violent and a functioning alcoholic in the past. Lies a bit too. I’m now feeling slightly guilty though, I’ve got my own house but when DM dies I might feel uncomfortable selling a house where he’s lived most of his adult life so we get our share. I think (so does DM but she never confronted him) that he had an affair once too, maybe that’s the reason. Not sure if the OW is still around. I’d lay money if I hired a private detective they’d find out but don’t want to open Pandora’s box up.

So what could/would you do? Legally they’ve sorted things out with separate wills including a holiday home they both own in France. Stepdad has more money in savings and DM has lots of investments. I suppose it’s more a moral question rather than legal maybe.

Has she stipulated that he has the right to remain in it until he dies? That's a pretty common thing to do, and would mean that you couldn't get him out.

Otherwise, I think he'll need to accept the house is sold and split three ways. It's up to him what he then does.

Your mum needs to either give him a life interest in the house, or not.

if he has a life interest he can stay until he remarries/chooses to move out, then the house is sold and the proceeds split.

no life interest then it’s up to the beneficiaries whether they want to force a sale. I do believe if you choose not to you can charge rent on your share.

your mum needs to clarify her wishes though.

You and DB could force the sale if he can’t buy you out, he might be able to buy you out by selling the holiday home and taking out a mortgage. He sounds asset rich enough that you would not be making him homeless so ignore any dramatics.

I know two separate people whose parents passed and their new partners were allowed to stay. It’s been years and years. And the families have issues with them looking after the property and keeping it in good order, refusing take home insurance etc. I think they wish they hadn’t bothered. It’s a hard one

Good for her, because it sounds as if she died and left her house and money to him he wouldn’t then leave it to you, her Dc.

Talk to your Mum. She could stipulate that he has the right to stay for 2 years, for example. Mumblechum , a MNer who is a will writing lawyer, was on a thread saying she only charges an extra £150 to write in a life interest and set up the necessary trust. (And her service at Marlow Wills is v economical anyway).

He might not outlive her, of course.

You seem to be hinting that your mum is aware of some very significant weaknesses in him as a partner and is resigned to them. Given that he will have his own funds (including a second home) and she could easily leave him more, put the house in joint names or write a life interest into her will but she hasn’t, I think morally you’re in the clear to force a sale and free up whatever legacy your mum wants to leave you.

That’s never going to be the case that the house is left to him and not us. At first she was only going to leave the house to me and DB and not my stepdad until she changed her mind about 15 years ago. In her will is the house is split 3 ways.

They own the holiday home in joint names not one name. Not sure how much money he has though. He has family in west of Ireland so may move back there.

To a pp who said he may not outlive my DM. Well she’s 82, he’s 72. Both in fairly good health but she has more health issues than him. So highly unlikely he’d die before her. They both want to avoid care homes.

It’s very hard to speak to my DM about this as she’ll often clam up and just say house will be sold and split 3 ways when I die. That’s it.

I’ve got no idea of who he’d leave his assets to when he dies. He always says everything is left to us DC but I think my DB more than him as they’re closer. And I’ve got no idea if the OW is still around. My stepdad comes from a poor background and had a low paid but secure job when younger. He never had an inheritance and doesn’t expect one now from his family but both his parents are dead anyway. My DM is the one who inherited a lot when younger and has investments now. She’s looking to release some of that money now to help DB and SIL buy a house as they’re in a flat.

Sounds like your mum is expecting you to sell it so🤷‍♀️

Are there likely to be inheritance tax issues with the property? If they’re not married then he will not get a spousal exemption. Depends on the value of the property of course but if there’s a hefty bill to pay then that might force a sale.

After WW3 quite literally when grandad died intestate I’d really prefer to avoid similar here! I do sort of get on with stepdad but as I said he’s volatile. He gaslights too. DB gets on far better with him.

I think that’s what we’ll do just sell. Not sure if stepdad is executor here but might see if DM changes that to avoid dramas. It’s a lovely Victorian house which I’d buy if I could but doubtful!

No. They’ve sorted everything out re inheritance tax so it’s vastly reduced or they’re not liable. I did say to DM it might be easier if they did marry/civil partnership for inheritance tax/general tax reasons but she says no.

Personally I think stepdad will move in with OW whom I’m sure is still around after DM dies but try to make it seem as though she’s “new” to family. He does over 3 hours at local gym 3 x a week and I know it doesn’t take 3 hours to do.

Rules in France are different - I think you'll automatically get her half of the holiday home.

I know someone who lived with his partner for over 25 years before she died from illness. They never married and it was her house from just before they met. They had a joint holiday home which he had a bigger share in.

When she died he was allowed to stay in the home for 12 months before it was sold off. He stayed in the holiday home for 6 months before he moved to a flat nearer the previous location.

Don't feel guilty if you have to sell up OP. Your 'stepdad' had all the time he's been with your mum (living rent free I'd guess) to build up his own savings for his future provision. He'll also be getting a third of the value of the house. I'd give him a reasonable time to find something else and then sell as per your mums wishes.

DM possibly knows or suspects SD has another woman and just doesn't care anymore.

French law re inheritance is worth looking into it's skewed against women, or was. Which is why my brother and wife sold up when they retired.

Sadly, who your DM leaves her house to is absolutely up to her. She has chosen to leave some of it to her partner, which she is legally allowed to do. She may well have had a trust written into her will as my own mother did which will allow him to stay in the house until he dies or cohabits, at which point he would have to sell it. If this is the case, then the house will become his legally until he does die.
‘Challenging this in court would eat up a great deal of the estate. your DM doesn’t want to discuss it with you, so let it go.

Why “sadly”?

i don’t think it’s sad that I can leave my hard earned assets to whoever I choose.

and why would o/p think her wishes should override her dm’s and challenge the will? Not that it could be done unless it’s thought the will is coerced or otherwise invalid.

it doesn’t matter if you disagree with a will. It’s not your will.

Basically after 2 marriages and divorces she can't be bothered selling their big house now and having to give it up/give him up as they generally get on well. I've had this talk with her before. Saw proof of text messages between him/OW.

But I can't force her down that route.

My stepdad has done quite well out of things then as he's got a third share in a large house, which though he's paid towards in low cost rent payments and has helped to do up to a certain degree, DM has paid for vast majority (roof etc) and also paid off the mortgage in her own name. She got the mortgage in names of her and her ex-DH (my DF) and another couple and bought them out. Then when my dad and her got divorced she got a guarantor so she could keep the mortgage and council paid interest on it until she got back on her feet. DM was originally going to leave the whole house to both me and DB, not stepdad at all. I'm quite happy it's split 3 ways.

Stepdad's family in Ireland (and he either told them or let them believe) believed for a long time that he bought the house, and she was using him to pay for it and as us kids weren't his and he was supporting us (he didn't!), he's made out I think he was the big man paying for it all which is total bollocks. Very easy for others to believe lies when you (him) only see family in Ireland once a year.

I think luckily they've looked into French inheritance law and seen notaires and also English/French speaking lawyers here too about it. I know their law can be complex. Stepdad didn't want eg his nephews to inherit which they may have done under old French inheritance law, he'd prefer DM and us kids to inherit.

She has told us, he's not allowed to remain in the house when she dies when it's sold.

It is 'me' thinking about this and if it's fair to turf him out. Me thinking this not her.

I am not thinking of challenging the will at all - where have I said that here?! I find my stepdad tricky yes, but acknowledge if he has a right in the house in a bequest/will then that is fair and I have to go along with that. I'm actually being pretty nice and fair asking here if I should get DM to change her mind and allow him to remain for a year in the house after she dies. She has said if I brought up with her, that, no, this would not happen, she's quite adamant about it.

He's not lived rent free but has paid a considerably small amount towards rent and bills, maybe cocklodger like. He always had a low paid job but with a very good pension (civil service) but that's his issue I think if he didn't get a better paid job, he was degree educated. My DM met him at a vulnerable time in her life. The one thing he did do was encourage her to go to night school to get A levels and then train to be a teacher. And he could be very nice as a father figure if you toed the line.

It sounds like you are thinking about how to be fair, or more than fair, to your stepfather, and also anticipating the ethical, practical and emotional challenges you will face, if she dies first, due to the fact that the practical situation (him living in the house alone and having effective possession) will be different from the legal situation (you and your brother having a right to 2/3 of the value after she dies).

The practical status quo will thus be to your disfavour relative to the legal situation, but it will be your burden to enforce your rights, and until you take that on, you may not get your fair share.

If you don’t want to have to deal with this head-on at the same time as your mother’s death, but if you also cannot her to take any legal measures now, then one option for you would be to see a solicitor who has been through these situations before and ask them what would be the practical options for you to get your share, how long it tends to take, how much it tends to cost, what sorts of incentives can be offered to get the person who needs to leave a house to do that, etc.

That would cost you a bit of money, in exchange for allowing you to enter the situation better informed if/when it does comme up (ie if she does die first).

You need to decide whether it’s worth it or not.

You've hit the nail on the head.

I really CBA dealing with ethical/practical/emotional challenges especially as I said with my DM dealing with my grandad (her dad) dying intestate. That was a nightmare and only reason I got involved was my work had a fax machine where I could fax docs to the solicitors etc and no one else in the family had a fax machine or access to one.

I do know a solicitors I used to work for, they'd advise now with payment, would have done so before when I worked there for free to a certain degree. I think I might actually get DM to do this, it's her property, her will and though she thinks she's young now (will be 83 in June) once time marches on it will only be more messy. Plus she does have some savings so why should I have to pay for this?