House right to stay after someone dies

[Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain]

My DM lives with my stepdad and has done for years now. They’re not married. House is in DM’s name as she bought it and paid off mortgage early too.

Plan on her death is to leave house 3 ways to me, DB and stepdad - that’s in her will. It’s a big Victorian house in a now desirable area and stepdad wouldn’t be able to buy us out. He’s 10 years younger than her.

I had no idea until I asked her recently that the house is still in her sole name and she has no intention of either marrying him, civil partnership or putting in both their names. DM was married and divorced twice in the past, so was my real dad (3x) and so was her DM (my nana). There were issues with legacies and wills in the past in our family on DM’s side. Me and stepdad I won’t lie have crossed swords in past, he’s sort of ok now. He goes from being charming to very sarcastic and sometimes unpleasant to me for no reason when I visit. DM and me just accept that’s the way he is and he won’t change now. He’s also been violent and a functioning alcoholic in the past. Lies a bit too. I’m now feeling slightly guilty though, I’ve got my own house but when DM dies I might feel uncomfortable selling a house where he’s lived most of his adult life so we get our share. I think (so does DM but she never confronted him) that he had an affair once too, maybe that’s the reason. Not sure if the OW is still around. I’d lay money if I hired a private detective they’d find out but don’t want to open Pandora’s box up.

So what could/would you do? Legally they’ve sorted things out with separate wills including a holiday home they both own in France. Stepdad has more money in savings and DM has lots of investments. I suppose it’s more a moral question rather than legal maybe.

Does SF know what's in the will? You could encourage him to buy a properly in Ireland now with his savings and rent it out.

Then he'd have somewhere to go once the house was sold. If that's how things work out.

Its up to your Mum who she leaves the house to.They sound comfortably off, so he could sell his home in France and stay at the property,or alternatively just live in France /buy another home somewhere. Her wishes must be respected .If she doesnt want him there thats her decision .

After DDad died, DM moved house, and her new house was paid for entirely by the proceeds of selling the family home entirely paid for by DDad.

DDad's estate went complete to DM, the children didn't get anything at this stage. DM was very conscious of this. When her long term partner moved in, she changed her will so that her partner could stay in the house for a year after she died, at which point, it was to be sold and the proceeds split before her 4 dc. Her partner (also 20 years younger), was on board with this.

He knows what's in the will yes and what he's entitled to, ditto for DM and her will. Thing is, he's got family in Ireland (his DB who's schizophrenic and lives in family home, 2 other DB's who live in other parts of Ireland and friends) but I really don't think he wants to move back there, I may be wrong. Then there'd be the situation for paying for medical bills there, health insurance?

I think he wants to get another property over here, to live in. They've also thought about selling the property in France but are dragging their heels about this as they can go there for 3-6 months or more, alone or together.

I know it's up to my DM who she leaves the house to but the house in France is in both their names and the one in England is in her sole name. She also have 2 flats which are rented out over here but they're going to me and DB.

I don't mind what happens to the house in France, for all I know, stepdad could move there but doubtful full time.

Stepdad has thought about buying a seaside property here with his own money or selling the place in France and buying a nicer, bigger seaside one here and splitting proceeds of French house.

Interesting to hear.

As I said before, my stepdad has put quite a lot into the family home via work on the garden and home improvements over the years (it is DM's home), it's increased vastly in value and now worth over £1 million and in a now desirable area. They don't want to move or downsize from this home now, and I quite understand this!

If by some means I could afford the house I'd buy it, but would have to agree to sell both flats which are jointly owned by me, DB and DM - this was from an inheritance to us, nothing to do with stepdad. The rental from these flats is invested in pensions for me/DB and additional income for DM.

My main point as I stated before, stepdad is 72, in quite good health but by the time DM dies he could well be 82 and not in such good health. He's sort of starting to slow down now but in good physical health. Despite what's happened over the years I'd hate to be the heartless stepdaughter, turfing him out of his home once DM dies which has been his home for the past 40 years or so just so we can sell the property for a profit, or me being able to buy it and turfing him out, there's no way I'd live there alone with him. And if it did come to that, I'd prefer to give him at least a year to find somewhere else.

I think a family meeting with all of us might be in order as a sensible next step, where we all put our cards on the table and discuss this calmly. What do people think about this?

Also, a final point, and I know this sounds a bit paranoid. Should I hire a private investigator to look into the OW business? I may well be wrong there. Then maybe DM might marry him or something if she knew that was over? Would that be wise? Oh ffs really don't want to think about this! Thanks so much for all help and advice so far!

OMG they've been together for 40 years. He's no cocklodger reading all your posts. He's contributed a lot financially. He's stuck by a woman a decade older who's now 82. I really think it's time to offload France. Let him care for her unto death.

Actually, he has NOT contributed a lot financially over 40 years. He's benefitted from a low rent, his contribution to bills etc but he certainly paid for nothing towards our care etc, that was always what DM did. Sticking by a woman a decade older than him, he was free to leave whenever he wanted. Playing the long game?? Most big improvements to the house, roof, boilers etc have been funded by DM not him.

My DM actually encouraged him in his 40s to buy a property, his first, which was on the south coast and this was then sold about 15 years later and both of them bought the holiday home in France. Before that, he was wasting his money a lot and had credit card bills. He also travelled a lot, was never sure if he used sex workers abroad but more than a few opportunities to do so. I think he started seeing the OW in his mid to late 40s so predictable mid life crisis.

They never wanted marriage or kids together either, more from DM's side as she couldn't face another marriage and my DB was chronically ill as a child, almost died twice.

I think France would be good to be got rid of. He is caring for her until death but she is more than capable of caring for herself!

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain I do not really see how it would benefit you if your DM were to marry your StepDad, so if they are both content with the present situation, why not leave well enough alone?

Regarding the hiring of a solicitor, there actually is a reason why you should consider paying for it, which is that then that solicitor would be working for you. They could look at the situation from your perspective, which means currently having no legal rights (which is as it should be), but anticipating a probable future situation in which you (and your brother) may acquire legal rights to the house without acquiring actual possession at the same time. You could ask the solicitor what would then be the approach they would recommend if you wanted to find a good balance between being fair to your stepfather’s rights, needs and interests while also being fair to your own.

Rather than rely upon somebody you happened to know a while back, I would suggest you consider finding someone reasonably local who is knowledgeable and wise in the area of law that is relevant here, and who is also the kind of person with whom you would feel comfortable.

I believe that most solicitors would offer an initial meeting without charging, so that you can assess whether you would want to work with them. You could bring a single 1-pager, probably with less then 1/2 page of text, illustrating the situation and outlining the objectives, and ask them to give you a high level overview of possible paths to pursue. You would at a certain level be asking for free advise since they would be telling you about the paths, but you are also legitimately a possible future client since if your DM does die first and your StepDad does not volunteer to just move out you may well need to hire a solicitor to help you go down your chosen path. It would probably be easier for you to have your brother on board with that, and even easier if you had your stepdad, but you may decide that involving anyone else right now could cause drama and upset so you may decide that doing it discreetly is the best path at the moment.

The estate might avoid some inheritance tax if they marry, if it's otherwise due, but if it changes anything, it's to the disadvantage of you and your brother. It's the opposite of easier. You don't say where in the UK you are and I'm much more familiar with the succession laws in Scotland than England, but it is not in the interests of the children of an earlier relationship to acquire a stepparent in law through a subsequent marriage that persists to the parent's death.

That sounds sensible. Think I will go down your solicitor route advice.

I think the main reason why I'm slightly panicking now is DM and stepdad were both quite ill recently, DM's could've ended up in hospital (pneumonia where she almost died twice in the past with sepsis) but luckily didn't.

And I've heard the odd horror story from friends who've advised me about this or forewarned me should I say.

We are all in England. Not Scotland. It's highly unlikely they'll marry.

DM is quite firm re her other assets (eg shared with her, DB and me) not going to stepdad.

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain

What's your brother's take on all this. If you're going to need a solicitor shouldn't he pay half?

I don't know what my brother's take on all of this is. He usually would be fair but as stepdad was in his life since he was about 2/2.5 then he's the only dad he's ever known.

DB is currently in his own dilemma with house buying and his BIL having a stake in the flat he owns with SIL (DB's wife). That in itself (too complex to go into here and I won't but just have!) means BIL gets just under half the proceeds of sale minus service charges, mortgage payments which he hasn't contributed towards. If it were me, I'd also deduct what he hasn't contributed towards, e.g. new boiler, interest on mortgage payments etc. FFS, I should be a bloody property lawyer! . I'm sharkish enough! Plus BIL has a flat in London rented out which was bought as/with a 'gift/inheritance' when his FIL died, which he may want to keep as a rental. BIL currently lives with his wife and 2 DC in a property owned by his MIL, they want to buy their own property soon and move out of that one.

A friend had this with her stepmother after her father died. The SM was given a year to find somewhere - the house was left to friend and siblings. She wasn't close to SM so was very businesslike about the situation. Your SD knows the position so it won't be news to him either.

Sorry, mum's LT partner was only 10 years younger.

They have split up now, so this arrangement was never tested.

Hmmm interesting. Lots of food for thought here.

Sounds like DM may think that he could move OW into the house

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain interested to hear how you can avoid inheritance tax on a property over £1m? Plus all the other investments/flats.
I thought the limit was £375k?

Don’t ask me! Maybe it’s because we split the proceeds?!

I don’t think DM thinks this and prob thinks OW has gone away.

I mean it’s not my business what stepdad does after she dies but we know there was someone as OW, and stepdad does lie and gaslight. Pity really as even though he’s not been great when younger he’s not a bad man, is good with his step grandsons.

I was trying to not come across as harsh!

Splitting the proceeds between multiple beneficiaries doesn’t take away the Inheritance Tax issue as everyone would do that otherwise!

You may need to sell the property to pay the Inheritance Tax bill, so it may not be possible for your step dad to stay in the home if this is the case.

You may need to take proper financial advice on this before accepting your mums word that there won’t be any IHT to pay.

I really have no idea what she's doing...

Her will/investments including 2 properties in mine and DB's and her name I don't know what happens in will but guessing as properties are in mine and DB's names there's no issues there. The other slightly worrying thing is that though DM has savings most and more are tied up in investments and a lot of them... her close friend had a nightmare with her DH when he died going through them all. Don't want to have to do that!

Sorry @Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain I’m not any expert on IHT at all, but know from when my own mum died, there was a personal allowance of £375k plus an extra £125k if leaving estate to children. Not sure how leaving one third to an unmarried partner affects the £125k extra bit.

So £500k total tax free before the 40% tax rate kicks in.

if your DM had been widowed rather than divorced, that allowance doubles up to £1m.

as I say, I’m no expert, so perhaps get advice on the shared properties and investments. 40% is quite a whack when you are expecting it all to be tax free.