Page 5 | Partner caught driving on provisional licence, no mot

MrsAllsorts · 13/12/2023 12:22

I'm afraid, OP, that whilst your situation is difficult and stressful, the laws regarding driving license, MOT and insurance are there to protect the innocent and are meant to apply to everyone equally, regardless.

As somebody with a relative who was seriously injured by a non-insured lad who hadn't passed his test, I can tell you that these things matter.

How far away was his place of work? I would ask him this question if I were the judge/magistrate.

The fact that you allowed him to drive the car uninsured and without an MOT is not great for you either.

Your circumstances may generate a little sympathy, but should the law be switched on and off? I would say not, otherwise the young man I mention above, can simply claim at will that he was depressed, going through a bad time etc, and so not really at fault in causing injury to 2 people (he was actually a joy rider and a chancer, and I gather, with no real remorse - exactly the type of person who will try and get away with a misdeed if the law allows it).

As others have indicated on here, best to apologise, and he will need to make alternative arrangements to get to work. If you apologize sincerely, this may work in your favour, and you may get off more lightly than you otherwise would have done.

If you had the temerity to try and make excuses, blame everyone else etc, then if I were the judge I would throw the book at the pair of you. But I admit, I'm partly thinking of my relative.

BluebellTimeInKent · 13/12/2023 12:23

In terms of what to expect, the sentencing guidelines are

No licence - Band A fine, 3 - 6 points
No MOT - Band A fine
No insurance - slightly more complicated but this would seem to fit into Category 2. He falls into higher culpability (because never held a licence) and lower harm (because not involved in an accident) so the starting point is a Band C fine and either disqualification for up to 6 months, or 8 points

They will be considered together on the totality principle, and the court will probably start with the insurance. Cat 2 - Band C - that is 150% of "relevant weekly income." So if his weekly income is £500, a Band C fine is £1500. Take off a third for a guilty plea and that is £1000.

Assuming he has previous good character and remorse, that can be adjusted downwards slightly. Then adjust it back up to cover the licence and MOT, he is looking at somewhere around a standard Band C fine.

Plus 8 points for a Cat 2 no insurance, or they could disqualify for a short time, usually 56 days, instead.

No insurance (Revised 2017) – Sentencing

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/no-insurance-revised-2017/

Gettingbysomehow · 13/12/2023 12:23

Sorry but don't bother explaining yourself in a court - unless someone just had a massive heart attack and no ambulance could come out they will not be in the slightest bit interested.

housethatbuiltme · 13/12/2023 12:24

Sunsea21 · 13/12/2023 12:16

For you to prove mitigating factors the car use would have had to be
(1) an emergency essential purpose
(2) no other possible way to complete the purpose.

for example, you were giving birth, in danger and no ambulance could be got and no one else around to help at all.

going to work sadly isn’t as it’s not essential (in that he could get another job elsewhere)and it wasn’t an emergency, it was a planned activity.
wEven jt you could prove the first there are many other ways he could have travelled so would fail on the second too.

i wish you well and I hope you can get things sorted with as little pain as possible

You cannot drive once a person is in active birth, its reckless endangerment even ambulance transporting laboring women have to pull over at the point of active birth until the baby is delivered 'roadside' and then resume travel.

A crash (even just a bump or pothole) with the baby in the birth canal or half way delivered could easily be fatal to both.

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 13/12/2023 12:25

If he was caught "coming back from work" then he knowingly drove to work, I'm guessing without an experienced driver by his side. I don't see as there is nay defence or mitigation. He knowingly broke the law.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 13/12/2023 12:26

Bromptotoo · 13/12/2023 10:28

A lot of judgement here. OP knows it's wrong and wants help.

No Mot is, I think, usually a fixed penalty - £100.

Unaccompanied on a Provisional is the killer - up to £1k fine and 6 points. The points will stay after he passes his test and, as a new driver he'll only need a single speeding offence to be back to square one and have to take his test again.

It'll affect insurance too.

Difficult to see any defence so it's guilty plea + mitigation.

As above proper legal advice needed. Solicitor will advise whether attending court 'suited and booted' and expressing his regret/mitigation in person will help.

Edited

I agree. There’s really no need to pile on, the OP clearly knows how serious this is - she doesn’t need smug judgment. I think you’ve given good advice here, and personally although I don’t see mitigating circumstances from what the OP has said, if he wants to explain then appearance in court might give the best chance to have his say and express his remorse.

Wolfpa · 13/12/2023 12:28

You are both idiots and you need to stop with the excuses. It doesn’t matter if he was driving home from work or if your MOT was due that day. You broke the law in a really dangerous way.

Seek legal advice accept the consequences of both of your actions

AnotherEmma · 13/12/2023 12:31

Eveh13 · 13/12/2023 10:14

I am currently lost and fuming at this situation. I apologise for the long post.. I am currently 7 months pregnant and my partner was caught driving alone on a provisional and without MOT (the appointment was on a same day but daytime, and he was caught at 2 a.m.). He has 3 charges against him and obviously needed to be removed from the policy. We want to plead guilty without attending a court but we Don't know how to explain himself, to try and lower a sentence. He was caught coming back from work at around 2 am but the officers did not include this in the report (to where he was going). He said to the officers that he needed the car to get into work. The police officer on the report quoted, ""I cautioned the driver who made no reply to caution". What does this actually means? I'm so confused. 🤔 He had shown the police officer his provisional licence and on the report says, quote "the vehicle was not displaying any L plates and the driver was unsupervised. The driver identified himself and the police checked it and he was free to leave walking. (Car was seized and under my name, I have full licence).
The thing is, how do we plead guilty and so can he explain himself? He wants to tell the court that he took the car to "help" me because I'm 7 months pregnant and we have a disabled child at home. We just don't know how to write it officially. I will be giving birth soon and I am dreaded and exhausted from pregnancy and this situation. Thank you

Have I understood correctly:
Your partner works evenings/nights and commutes at unsociable hours
He has been learning to drive (assume he's having lessons and you're not teaching him?)
You own and drive a car and added him to your insurance (as a learner) so he could practise
You were late booking your MOT

How was he getting to and from work before; were you giving him lifts? You say you have a disabled child, presumably you weren't bundling the child into the car at 2am?

At some point you must have given him permission to drive your car without you (or another qualified driver). I dont know if that is an offence but you should seek advice on it.

He needs to talk to a criminal law solicitor ASAP. He can search for one on the law society website.

ISSTIUTNG · 13/12/2023 12:33

The OP hasn't expressed any entitlement just concern about what will happen to their family.

She has expressed an unbelievable amount of entitlement. That's why she's receiving the backlash she is. She expects the courts to be lenient on somebody who knowlingly did something illegal on the grounds that she is pregnant and their child is disabled even though there's no proof that this influenced dp's decision at all and definitely no proof that he had no reasonable alternative than to drive illegally. How is that not entitled?! Any reasonable person would just accept that there's no excuse. It's also really tacky that both their children are being drawn into this shitshow.

C8H10N4O2 · 13/12/2023 12:34

Littlegoth · 13/12/2023 12:21

@C8H10N4O2 Give over. What about those people who do have licences and insurance wanting to get to work safely and not put at risk by this sort of dickhead. You are as bad as she is, trying to excuse it.

She was perfectly fine with him driving her car, she’s only bothered now he’s been caught. That is literally the only problem she has with the situation. Unbelievable.

Edited

Try reading my post:

"Partner was banged to rights - he has broken the law and should expect the penalties."

The fact that the OP is asking here for the kind of advice which anyone with money can buy from a solicitor does not mean she has no other concerns. That is simply the question which has driven her here.

But do continue with your self righteous imaginative rant.

LadyLapsang · 13/12/2023 12:34

I hope the Police keep a good look out for him in the future. So many uninsured drivers such as him on the roads. Total menace and push up the cost of driving for everyone else quite apart from the risk to other drivers and pedestrians.

OP, you sound totally complicit, where did you think your car was that night?

On the MOT, when did it expire and when did you book it in for the MOT?

WhycantIkeepthisbloodyplantalive · 13/12/2023 12:34

I don't think it will help in anyway explaining yourself on this occasion. I believe there are only a couple of reasons that mitigate driving without a license and that is driving in an emergency situation (loss of life or limb).

The consequences are likely to be points on his license (not so much of an issue because he doesn't have one) and a driving ban. Other than him not being able to take his test for a period of time, his insurance will likely be quite high when he does pass because of the driving conviction.

You are not going to be able to avoid either of these consequences regardless of if he explains himself.

Thenewmags · 13/12/2023 12:35

I really hope that all the posters wanting to crucify someone for driving without a full licence are also lobbying hard to get better and affordable public transport options so that shift workers and the low paid can get to and from work safely without a car

I do agree we need better public transport. In my early 20s I often spent hours travelling to shifts at low paid work and recall the discomfort I felt as a young woman returning late at night on a bus with drunk men. But that is still zero excuse for him driving without a licence.

” Mind you he would also be more likely to have afforded the cost of a licence and a car in the first place.”

He already has a car in his household, the issue isn’t whether he can afford a car or not. I don’t think he hasn’t got a licence because he can’t afford it either. The license fee is £62 for practical test and £23 for theory test. If it was really important to them they would have paid up.

The likely reason he hasn’t forked out the £80 odd pounds for the tests is because he is aware he doesn’t meet the driving standards to pass the test. And despite knowing that they thought it was a good idea for him to drive this car anyway.

What about the safety of the pregnant women driving on the road? What about their partners driving home to get to them? What about the safety of anyone on the road legally going about their business getting from A to B?

If he was the archetypal white affluent male doing this then he would have a solicitor drafting his mitigation statements by now

It’s similarly terrible when these kind of men use their money to get off. Everyone should be punished severely for this no matter how much money they throw at their legal team. i

Btw I also have to put up with our unreliable overpriced public transport. Trains either cancelled, badly delayed or crowded etc
I understand the many issues with it. I’m taking driving lessons now, but at some points of my life I haven’t been able to learn due to it being just too expensive. Again, I’d never consider this as any kind of reason or excuse to ignore the safety of myself and others by getting on the road anyway.

whynotwhatknot · 13/12/2023 12:35

if you say he uses it for work thats not mitigating circumstances its even worse-and the fact that you gave permission will see you possibly with points and a fine aswell

he cant use it for work unless hes supervised its as simple as that

15PiecesOfFlair · 13/12/2023 12:35

LadyBird1973 · 13/12/2023 10:55

People are struggling to pay for everything, the way things are at the moment. He needs get to work to keep their heads above water and probably couldn't afford the driving test and insurance. Not excusing what he did, but I imagine it's something he felt he had to do, just to keep things ticking over financially. Few people drive like this through not caring - a man who is working at night and looking after a pregnant wife and disabled child is unlikely to be a boy racer type who doesn't give a shit about safety.
Again, not excusing it - it's incredibly risky and potentially very dangerous but I don't think it would have happened unless they felt forced into it by life circumstances. OP is pregnant and stressed .
You need legal advice asap OP

Maybe, if you can't drive legally, don't get a job you need to drive to?

Neriah · 13/12/2023 12:38

StarlightLime · 13/12/2023 10:17

How exactly were you "helped" by this?? What nonsense. There are no mitigating factors to what he did.

Sorry, but this ^^^

He was driving without a license, withouit MOT and without insurance. And since, unless you are suggesting that he stole the car from you and this is the only time he did it (which I wouldn't believe for one minute), then you are as bad as he is.

orangegato · 13/12/2023 12:39

What a prick I hope he gets the full force.

As for the excuses, is he dumb enough to think that will make any difference? No he was not helping you (at 2am!) he was avoiding the taxi fare. The poor kids.

WhyamIinahandcartandwherearewegoing · 13/12/2023 12:40

He doesn’t need to explain himself. He was driving unaccompanied on a provisional license - doesn’t matter that he needs to get to work (get a taxi/bus/lift etc) or that you are pregnant.

What a prize he sounds like. And you would do well not to excuse this.

Snowdogsmitten · 13/12/2023 12:41

It’s quite normal to want to say your piece, but there’s no defence to this.

whatausername · 13/12/2023 12:42

Two entitled people, who have little regard for the law or for others, raising children. Oh dear.

Littlegoth · 13/12/2023 12:45

@C8H10N4O2 Don’t worry, I will!

gamerchick · 13/12/2023 12:45

Probably better you don't try and explain yourself tbh. Telling a judge all that will irritate the fuck out of them. See a solicitor.

DotAndCarryOne2 · 13/12/2023 12:45

whatausername · 13/12/2023 12:42

Two entitled people, who have little regard for the law or for others, raising children. Oh dear.

And this helps the OP how, exactly ? Ignore the question and go straight to smug judgement.

AnotherEmma · 13/12/2023 12:53

BluebellTimeInKent · 13/12/2023 12:11

This isn't AIBU, people.

OP these are strict liability offences - he is either guilty or not guilty.

We want to plead guilty without attending a court but we Don't know how to explain himself, to try and lower a sentence.
He will need to go to the magistrates court if he is summonsed and plead guilty. Alternatively he may be sent a letter asking him if he pleads guilty or not guilty and asking him what his weekly income is (to calculate the fine). If he completes that, he may not be summonsed.
He will need to tick the box to say guilty, because he is.
He can then provide a "plea in mitigation" either in the big text box to explain himself or if he has to attend court he can provide it orally.

He said to the officers that he needed the car to get into work. The police officer on the report quoted, ""I cautioned the driver who made no reply to caution". What does this actually means? I'm so confused. 🤔
It means the police have actually done him a massive favour - he basically told them that he does this regularly and they haven't noted it down. Evidence of regular uninsured driving is an aggravating factor on the sentencing guidelines.
His answer also suggests that you knew perfectly well he had the car (you would if he does this regularly) and quite often police will follow up by asking whether the registered keeper knew the person was driving - if "no" then the driver can be charged with TWOC (taking a motor vehicle without consent) or the keeper can be charged with allowing an uninsured person to drive their vehicle. So the police have been quite nice to him by not going down this route.

The caution is as follows: "You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."
The idea is to stop people from coming up with a cock and bull story at a later date.
If his reply to caution was that he needs the car to get to work it would suggest that he is regularly doing this and thinks his needs are more important than the law. This is not a position that would impress magistrates.

The thing is, how do we plead guilty and so can he explain himself? He wants to tell the court that he took the car to "help" me because I'm 7 months pregnant and we have a disabled child at home. We just don't know how to write it officially. I will be giving birth soon and I am dreaded and exhausted from pregnancy and this situation. Thank you
Provide the explanation either in court or on the form that is sent. Avoid saying "I needed to do this because...." as he did not NEED to drive uninsured. A good approach is a shit sandwich but with the shit on the outside - I'm an idiot, but here is my explanation, did I mention I'm an idiot.

"I know that I should not have been driving. My wife was 7 months pregnant at the time and we have a disabled child at home. I was worried about them, and I made the foolish decision to drive so I could get back to them quicker than taking the bus. I realise this was a poor choice especially as the car was overdue an MOT. In hindsight I realise how serious this was, because if I had been involved in an accident I would not have been insured and this could have caused immense stress and difficulty for everyone concerned. I realise I am very lucky not to have caused any damage to anybody, and I now understand that even without causing an accident, uninsured and unlicensed drivers have an effect on others through higher insurance premiums. It is not a mistake I will ever repeat and I hope to get my full licence as soon as I am permitted to do so. I would ask for credit for my guilty plea."

Good advice.

I do think he is going to have to state whether or not you knew he was driving your car, and whether you gave permission. You might need separate legal advice about that.

Locutus2000 · 13/12/2023 12:55

It’s similarly terrible when these kind of men use their money to get off. Everyone should be punished severely for this no matter how much money they throw at their legal team

Ugh. My ex-FiL made literal millions protecting rich people from the consequences of their actions, including cases where there were fatalities. He was very proud of it.

It really is one rule for them, another for the little people.