Encounter with Jimmy Saville on school trip - who do I tell?

[Justalittlebitblondie]

I need your hive brains! I had an encounter with Jimmy Saville when I was nine - nothing as bad is could have been - hugging, stroking my hair and telling me how beautiful I was. I was completely freaked out and remember recoiling. It was on an outdoor activity trip organised by the school (state). The teachers saw, laughed and I was teased about it later by them. I have decided to tell the Council as feel need to have reported it. They are not interested as it is over 12 months ago - so who do I tell?

I can understand wanting to tell someone. Did you go to the council to inform them of the teachers? I don’t understand what the council could/would have done so I was a bit confused on that front!

You can go to the police but there isn’t a crime to report in this instance?

The OP doesn't say how long ago this was but I'm guessing well before 1990.

A teacher retiring this year at 66 would have been born in 1957 and probably left Uni and started work in 1979. Miss Dean, who was an NQT of (I guess) 22 when I went to the Grammar school in 1971 will be in her mid seventies. Anybody who taught me at Primary when I was 9 is going to be over 80.

You can't put somebody that age, or any age, 'on trial' now for acting in a way that was seen as normal at the time.

Erm, he's dead?

Thanks for clarifying - so they'd all be retired now. I couldn't quite work out the timescales in my head! 😂

That said, the idea that you can't put someone of 'that age' on trial just isn't true. Anyone can commit a crime at any age. And anyone can be prosecuted for something they did a long time ago. I appreciate that in this instance, it would be the teachers words again the OP and historic crimes are often hard to prove, but the general idea that all over 80s can't go on trial because of their age is bonkers!

And the idea that you couldn't prosecute someone because their behaviour was considered normal at the time isn't true either.

Firstly, I don't think it was considered normal by everyone, even back when Saville was behaving like this. In the 1980's someone who volunteered for a children's group I was part of (think Brownies but it wasn't Brownies) behaved in a similar way to what the OP is describing Saville did to her. This man wasn't prosecuted but he was asked to stop volunteering for the group. There might not have been Safeguarding Leads back then and nowadays more official action might be taken, but even then this sort of behaviour was not considered acceptable by others adults involved in the group or by the parents of the kids involved.

Secondly, I know it's a vastly different situation, but ex-Nazi officers were prosecuted well into their 90's for crimes that were considered 'normal' behaviour under the Nazi regime.

@chocolatefiends The phrase 'on trial' might have been unwise. What I meant was you cannot kebab somebody retired and in their seventies/eighties for being a plonker 40-50years ago.

If we were talking of criminality you would of course be right. But on the OP's account what Savile did was distasteful to a level we'd now regard as offensive and a safeguarding issue. Not a crime though. Not even now.

Teachers being unsympathetic isn't criminal either. If we're talking back in the seventies/eighties it was par for the course.

It is total fantasy to think that these teachers committed a crime. Even if the law recognised what Savile did to the OP as a crime, which is incredibly unlikely from what the OP has said (no, it is not automatically criminal assault if someone touches you without consent), the teachers did not know he was going to do it. They were not parties to the crime, even if there was a crime.

And, no, they are not accessories after the fact, before someone suggests that, as they did not help Savile conceal or evade capture after a crime. Merely failing to report a crime is not a criminal act, other than in very specific circumstances that don't apply here. It's not a crime even now for a teacher to fail to report - there's a consultation at the moment about whether it should be.

People feeding the OP a load of horseshit about what she can expect from the criminal justice system are just indulging their own hero complexes without actually given a toss about the OP, who will just be let down again if she follows their advice.

And not even Hitler was prosecuted for war crimes... as he was dead.

The idea that an 80 year old teacher could be prosecuted for not reporting to police at the time that a celebrity hugged a child and touched a childs hair in the 80's is absurd.

At the time it was not known he was a paedophile. Knowing he is a paedophile and what we know now obviously makes the encounter chilling and it is completely understandable that makes it upsetting to the op for which she should seek counciling

At the time though if the teachers had reported to the police that this famously eccentric celebrity who was a massive charity giver, worked in hospitals and was friends with royalty hugged a child and touched her hair the phrase 'lucky her' would have been the likely response. Lots of celebrities hug children - they still do.

I was sexually assaulted as a teenager and to me this does not meet the threshold of 'assault'.

You cannot possibly blame the teachers!! They could not have possibly known what Savile was. Hardly anyone did. He was revered! People would most likely have envied the OP because he paid attention to her!

There has been no crime committed by anyone here.

If it's closure you are seeking, @Justalittlebitblondie, I agree with those who have suggested counselling.

As you have found from your attempt to report it to the council, it's more likely to make you feel worse about what happened. I wonder, would you have carried this with you for so long if it hadn't emerged that Savile was a predator?

this is correct advice. I worked on the national inquiry into CSA that finished last year and spent aeons investigating lack of action from authority figures and caregivers ranging from distractedness to downright dereliction of duty and even with our recommendation for mandatory reporting (which is a complex consideration with arguments in the best interest of the child on both sides) the government have shown the square root of f all interest in pursuing any real conversation on the matter.

OP I am sorry that some on this thread have done you a disservice in either direction - either by implying this is something you could pursue from a civil claims or compensatory perspective, or by indicating that you don’t have every right to feel deeply affected and even traumatised by these memories. Others have suggested NAPAC and NSPCC as points of contact to explore your immediate response to these feelings and seek further guidance and support - I urge you to take their recommendations. In addition may I suggest The Survivors Trust - an umbrella agency for specialist sexual abuse support orgs, who can signpost you accordingly?

Lastly, to you and anyone else who is coming to terms with an instance of historic sexual abuse, no matter how tangential or minor it ‘seems’ or people tell you it is, please know that there is no time limit on seeking support, and that you have every right to do so. I wish you well.

Lastly, to you and anyone else who is coming to terms with an instance of historic sexual abuse, no matter how tangential or minor it ‘seems’ or people tell you it is, please know that there is no time limit on seeking support, and that you have every right to do so. I wish you well.
Well put.

You need a counsellor, not a councillor.

No wonder the council didn't want to know, I'm not sure what they could do.
I'm not even sure what the police could do, given that Savile is now dead.

If you feel like you need some acceptance of the situation to soothe your soul, then find a counsellor to talk.

Getting it off your chest is a good start.

This.

And they wonder why people don't report stuff, jeeze.

Well said.
The whole of Operation Yewtree only happened after Savile was dead. Hundreds of victims reported, and although there was no chance of the perpetrator being prosecuted, they at last had the opportunity to finally be heard and believed. And finally many of them came to understand that it wasn’t their fault or something they should be ashamed of.

I’m disgusted at the “why do you need to tell anyone” comments. Horribly insensitive. I thought that most people by now understood that people who have had an experience they found traumatic need to talk it through.

Posters like this one make all the bad stuff about MN worth it xx

To what possible end? It wasn't abuse, just because it's an encounter with someone who turned out to be an abuser?

In terms of redress, even if you had far worse from Savile, I'm not convinced the Council would do much about it. I recall a small news item in Metro, many years ago, about shocking care home abuse crimes in Surrey due to come out, some in Nork I think, there was also historical child abuse in a care home in Firtree Road nr Banstead, those affected were invited to contact a legal firm, I think. Nothing came of it, I suspect some legal firms are working in conjunction with the Council to suppress all this stuff, and run the clock down. It's all 'tell me what you know' stuff ie basic surveillance on you.

Shocking care home abuse in Lambeth, long covered up by the Council and the Met, ditto serial killer Levi Bellfield's links to care homes, the folder on this ignored by the lovely Met head Dame Cressida Dick.

You had a lucky escape. Nothing to see here. Move on.

this is a completely unacceptable response. You don’t get to dictate what someone else finds traumatic - even so, a long suppressed memory of being touched non consensually - even if not sexually - by a child rapist certainly falls within these parameters. Who the hell are you to tell them otherwise, even if it’s nothing more than ‘angst’ to you?

It beggars belief that this place is called mumsnet sometimes honestly. Would you be happy with someone giving this message to your kid? reprehensible.

I agree. What a nasty response.

Maybe contact the NSPCC helpline, and ask where you can get support. It was obviously distressing for you

I disagree I have worked in a related field and have seen changes/reports/investigations/compensation etc all as a result of.people reporting issues.

Move on hun. It happend years ago. Enjoy your life and live it to the fullest. Nearly all women have been assaulted in some way. I remember being felt up in nightclubs, eve my teacher turned out to be a pedophile and invited me to his house - luckily my mum said no! , xxx

It sounds a bit yuk , like many experiences in the 70s. How does it make you feel? Do you feel you should tell the Police or just sort of get it out there?