Encounter with Jimmy Saville on school trip - who do I tell?

[Justalittlebitblondie]

I need your hive brains! I had an encounter with Jimmy Saville when I was nine - nothing as bad is could have been - hugging, stroking my hair and telling me how beautiful I was. I was completely freaked out and remember recoiling. It was on an outdoor activity trip organised by the school (state). The teachers saw, laughed and I was teased about it later by them. I have decided to tell the Council as feel need to have reported it. They are not interested as it is over 12 months ago - so who do I tell?

I think the way forward depends on what the op wants to achieve.

If they want someone to talk to and get it off their chest then the nspcc who will have contacts with councillors who can help you

If you just want to be heard by the police with no expectation of action then report to the police but if it in the hope they will arrest your teachers from 1975 I fear you may be disappointed.

At the time Savile was in his performing prime he seen by most of the public as just an eccentric odd ball. Travelling regularly between London and Leeds c79-83 I used to see him on the train occasionally. People greeted him as the Celebrity he seemed to be and for the most part he acted 'in character'.

He was allowed into schools, hospitals and the Prime Minister's country retreat as an honoured guest. The one near miss with prosecution during his lifetime was a result of groping teenage girls in a Children's Home/Approved School. The evidence was, by then, 30 years old and, even if the women concerned had been persuaded, against their apparent instincts at the time, to go into the witness box they'd very likely have been torn apart - metaphorically of course.

The CPS report on why it was not pursued is a window back into the times and, frankly, the opposite of a cover up - too much hindsight and application of 21st Century standards.

Only after his death did it come out that he was a sexual predator and that some people in authority had at least an inkling of what he was up to. The morals of older men interacting with youngsters was completely different in the sixties and seventies. The word Safeguarding and all that now rightly and routinely goes with it had not been invented.

I appreciate that the OP now feels, quite rightly and knowing what we do now, that she was abused but I think dealing with via talking and therapy is the way forward.

Anybody who was teaching then is probably going to be long retired and, with the same hindsight as the rest of society

I think the best person to tell would be a counsellor so you can deal with the impact on yourself.

I would see a counsellor.

@Justalittlebitblondie
Contact child safeguarding at your local police

They have officers trained to deal with non-recent abuse, even where the offender is dead. They will help you, document it, and get you access to appropriate support

You were touched against your will and without your consent, a victim of a crime. You don't need to justify or explain the need to report this.

Anyone expecting you to do so is trivialising that crime

Exactly this - which is why I asked upthread what the OP expected the Council to do? They have no powers to investigate historical potential crimes. Their duty is only to protect children and vulnerable adults in the present - something they are struggling to do, given their lack of resources. I genuinely do not understand what response the OP expected from them, given that there is no current safeguarding risk to anyone from her information.

If she doesn't clarify what she wants in her own mind, she is in danger of reinforcing the same feelings of not being seen that her teachers gave her. A lot of PPs are giving unrealistic advice about what she can expect from agencies like the police at this stage. That just isn't helpful.

Counselling sounds like a good idea.

I sorry that you are suffering from these feelings.

I agree with reporting to the school and the NSPCC. Can I also suggest that you write to the safeguarding lead at your previous school? They may have received other reports about him.

Are you still in touch with any of your school friends who also attended the trip? Have you talked to them about what happened?

I genuinely don't understand what good writing to a school about what happened on a school trip likely 40 or 50 years ago when none of those teachers are still at the school will do. Are you expecting them to investigate? The op may get a letter of apology but that is about it.

If a teacher had assaulted the op and that teacher was alive and playing santa at the local shopping centre there isn't a person on this thread who would be saying not to report it regardless of how long ago it was.

With Saville his crimes are known and the perpetrator is dead. The op can add herself to the list but there will be no investigation. Telling authorities may help her and if that is the case then that would be a great thing for her to do and she may get a letter of apology from someone who had nothing to do with the crime but the expectation of anything more and the disappointment when it doesn't manifest may make her mental health worse.

This isn't minimalising things- anyone in her position would be upset which is why people are suggesting counselling and the nspcc may be able to suggest something but the op needs to be realistic in her expectations.

I honestly wouldn't bother now, nothing actually happened and he is dead. I had a few encounters with him when I was 15, I even have written proof as I wrote one of our conversations down at the time, still have that letter 25yrs later.

I agree with this.

The police regularly take reports of historic crimes/incidents. If the OP wants to report it to the police they can. The police may be able to direct the OP to places where they can access support.
Sometimes being listened to can just be enough. Why must this OP state what they are hoping to gain? Perhaps they don't yet know themselves.

Report him to the NSPCC or the police for waht though. He very publicly, and in full view of several adults, touched her hair and said she was beautiful. This was not a crime.

I am absolutely not minimising that OP feels distressed by this and would agree that perhaps some therapy may help her process her feelings around it, but it is not unreasonable to ask someone what they would hope to achieve by reporting a non-crime decades after it happened. In fact, if someone who is already managing difficult feelings around an encounter like this reports it expecting an investigation or a result that will provide closure, and then doesn't get any, it could be even more damaging to their mental health. Exploring with op what she wants to achieve before hand can help to manage expectations and help her to focus her actions in the right direction.

I'm shocked by how dismissive and rude lots of posters have been on this thread - and you expect a level of nastiness with topics like this so that's saying something.

There really isn't any point in telling people now.
You can't judge a former society by today 's rules. What he did - hugging, stroking hair and telling her she was beautiful, wasn't against the law, and nothing can be done about it at this late stage.
I agree that counselling is the best way forward right now.

The council? Wtf?

I also had an ‘encounter’ with Savile. When the truth came out about him, I just knew it was accurate, based on what he did to me in full view of a couple of hundred people. I gave him short shrift when he touched me (I was about 13) and my school friends were shocked - not at what he had done but how I had spoken to him!!
Fortunately, although it was an unpleasant moment and I obviously remember it to this day, it didn’t have the same long term effect on me as your encounter has done to you.
As others have said before, counselling may be the way to go. I hope you find peace.

I would talk through your feelings with a therapist.

You are right to feel upset about this but it sounds like he nor the teachers actually did anything legally wrong.

"You had ample opportunity to speak up then" has been used for years to silence people who for an absolute myriad of reasons didn't feel able to speak up in the past. Kindly, you have no idea whether or not the OP did have ample opportunity to speak up at any point, especially not when she was a child with teachers mocking her for an experience that she found traumatic.

OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I hope you're able to find the right place to report it and a place to process it - maybe the NSPCC would be a good place to start?

Horrified by some of these responses.
nothing happened? Of course it did.
op, you should tell the police so they can record it.
norhing official will happen as he is dead but they are the correct authority to report it to

@DGPP why are you telling someone to report something to the police that was not a crime? How do you imagine the OP will feel when she is dismissed by the police or any other of the agencies that posters are recommending she reports this to?

Jimmy Saville was a well-loved celebrity in the 80s. He was actively encouraged to engage with children everywhere he went. He was encouraged to pet them on the head, shake their hands and even have them on his knee. With hindsight this is appalling, not just because he is now known to be a monster, but because we understand much more about child safeguarding now.

People are not saying that she is unreasonable to feel her feelings, but encouraging her to believe that any police force, school or council will do anything now that will make her feelings better is actually not the kind thing you think it is.

I had to stop reading this thread after the first page. You had some horrible replies. Really shocking, Mumsnet is usually better than that.

It is natural to want your experience heard, to feel it might offer closure. When there is a power imbalance in abuse (in your case several: age, sex, status) we are often frozen as a form of self preservation. As an adult, we might eventually feel that we want to DO SOMETHING because we couldn't at the time. The teachers' mocking dismissal sounds equally traumatic. Again it is natural to now want the awfulness of that experience validated, because it wasn't at the time.

And it was awful. Saville was letting you know he could do what he wanted to you and the teachers made it clear they were not equipped to stop him. That's one heck of a thing to learn at 9.

And to the suggestion that you'd had ample to report after yewtree I have no words. This is not uncommon! Admitting these awful things have happened to us requires facing up to our inherent vulnerabilities and accepting that some bystanders can be uncaring or even complicit. It is a horrible feeling.

If this happened now, to my DD, I would go utterly bloody ballistic and do everything in my power to make sure the man who stroked her hair and hugged her was prosecuted and the teachers who teased her never worked as teacher again. I would make their lives fucking hell!

Do any of the teachers still work as teachers. Because if they do, you should go to the police and the local authority.

Is this really Mumsnet?

I'm shocked and upset to see such inhumanity.

There's nothing to gain by reporting it. He is dead, and even if any of the teachers are still alive, nothing would come of it.

However it is clearly still bothering you (understandably so), so seeing a counsellor would be the best thing for you.