Are we actually both responsible for school fees?

[Icandefinitelydothis]

Hi, I wonder if anyone has any experience they can share.

My ex and father of my two children is coercive. It took me 2.5 years of planning to get him out of my house and it was very difficult. Nevertheless he’s been gone a while now and life for the three of us at home is all the better for it.

My planning included making sure I earned enough to pay for absolutely every aspect of the children’s lives. The reason is, he manipulates his income to pay minimal, if any, child maintenance. I saw this with his ex, where CMS took him to court and won. He’s doing the same with me as I knew he would.

I’m genuinely torn about what to do…..
I can cover the children’s school fees and I do so happily. But, he has jointly signed a contract saying we are both jointly and severally liable for them and that covers their whole time at the school, until they’re 11.

Has anyone had any experience of leveraging this to get part payment of fees? Or is it simply a case of him saying that he can’t pay so I’m solely responsible because I can?

Or maybe the peace is worth not even going there……

Any advice and experience gratefully received. Thanks 😊

I think there are several answers to this.

Legally my understanding is that jointly and severally liable means if you fail to pay the school they can pursue your ex for the full amount (and if he fails to pay they can pursue you for the full amount). According to this article if both of you failed to pay and the school only sued you, you could then pursue your ex for a contribution. But I think until you default on the payment it's up to the two of you to agree how contributions should be split.

The non-legal answer is:

• this is not a good enough reason to expose yourself to more of his coercive behaviour. You can afford the fees and he has more to gain from the situation. Knowing you want him to contribute gives him another stick to beat you with
• you knew what he was like going in.

As CMS won against him last time, is it worth asking them to do the same this time?

My friend's court order mandates that her ex must pay 50% of the school fees until their daughter leaves school at 16 or 18.

So my friend and her ex are invoiced separately, she has no idea if he actually pays his share, school have been really good and keep her out of his games.

I would assume he must be paying, otherwise the school would have informed her than the children can’t continue there due to non payment of fees.

If he’s been able to manipulate his income to be only paying minimum CM, then I doubt he could be forced to pay school fees for 2 children.

Thanks for that, I’m grateful.

You're right on the exposure. In fairness I didn’t know when I got pregnant with our first - non-violent behaviours are incredibly insidious. I see now but not then. I saw it clearer when I was pregnant with our second when the first violent behaviour and police involvement occurred. And yes, I can’t believe I didn’t see sooner.

I knew on signing the contract for our second. That said, I’ve always maintained my financial independence and I’ve always planned to have the ability to pay fully. The school mandate that both parents sign, I couldn’t submit the forms with just my signature on it when there’s someone else with parental responsibility.

I actually have a lot of information on his income because I know his job, his boss (although he’s self employed) and how much and what he is paid for. I also know how CMS/HMRC can find this information readily. I’m mindful this will also benefit his ex, who he’s treated terribly.

if it’s up to us to agree, we won’t (unless it’s us agreeing for me to pay it all). His stance is total silence on financial matters. He enjoys the frustration he thinks that brings.

He has an agreement with his boss to get cash I believe.

Ok thanks, that’s interesting.

He has threatened to make sure I lose my house, my job and my children, and to take me to court to get full custody and give up his job so I pay him CM. That’s apparently so he can show the world what an unfit mother I am.

Perhaps I could add it as a consideration to the court.

I’ve heard nothing more yet about his plans to achieve the above, but I’m ready for when I do!

What attracted you to marry and choose this man as the father of his children knowing the character he was? You stayed and chose him, knowing how he treated his existing children?

J&S liability secures the interests of the lender - in this case the service provider - but not either contract holder.

There's no actual requirement for him to pay half, which is a common misconception with J&S contracts. You're both liable to pay 100% but if one party is already paying 100% then the second party won't be pursued.

Is this for private school? Is it worth moving the child to a state school? So you're not relying on him to pay half the fees.

How is this helpful?

Assuming in the U.K. it is unlikely that the courts would enforce school fees because they are not essential. They will enforce cms including potentially investigating hiding money etc what you choose to spend cms on is up to you, eg school fees.

The only time courts get involved with lifestyle expenses generally is very high incomes, school fees are treated akin to spousal maintenance, so if written into to the financial order during divorce then they can go after him. It's not clear if this is the case. Income would need to be well into 6 figures for this to apply.

Based on your later posts it seems he's committing all kinds of fraud including his employer, I'm sure hmrc would be interested! Hes also a bit short sighted in his desire to make you loose your job and gain custody so you pay him child maintenance - if you aren't working you pay £7 a week from benefits!!! Delusional man though why did you fall for it. Personally I'd suggest you don't engage beyond child contact, don't pursue for money, he's likely to disappear from your lives when he cons the next woman...

@TeenagersAngst the pp was probably not very helpful but they’re right. Op stood by and watched her dh screw the other ex left, right and centre to the point CMS took him to court, mainly because it meant she was better off financially. Now she’s realising he’s doing the same to her.

Don't let this affect you. You have made sure you can pay the fees and will do so.

The thing he has signed is there so that in the unlikely event that you go bankrupt or pull your child from the school with no notice and refuse to pay the 1 terms fee as notice which you are obliged to, then the school can sue him if there's a better chance of getting him to cough up rather than you.

It can't and shouldn't be used to make him contribute to fees normally against his will because that would enable him to initiate a court case to obtain a court order for the children to be enrolled in state school instead.

In what world is this sort of victim blaming and acceptable response to a practical question such as that from the OP?

I didn’t know. It’s a long story. The realisation came slowly. Some incidents came with quick realisation etc including when other women (one with children, one without) wrote to me out of the blue.

When the realisation came and I tried to get him to leave, that’s when the threats above were made. I was absolutely terrified. Took me over two years of planning and therapy to get out and I feel proud of myself that I did.

I do still get the occasional victim blaming ‘why didn’t you leave’ etc, but not from my close friends, family, who are wonderful and the children live in a happy home now.

Thanks @TeenagersAngst

I do still get these comments but not often. I don’t talk about it much but when I do, most people are kind.

I’m just grateful I’m here posting for advice on this side of things and not desperately caught in a horrible situation any more.

Oh, I know how this one goes.

1. Report to Social Services. Probably includes photographs of things around or outside your home, such as the bins on collection day to 'show' the place is full of rubbish/alcohol/evidence of prostitution and drug use.
2. Report to RSPCA if you have any pets.
3. Emails to your employer/regulatory body regarding all of the above and your sexual behaviour.
4. HMRC reports of fraud.
5. Probably a speculative report of benefit fraud even if you don't actually claim any benefits, just on the offchance.
6. Report to your mortgage lender that you're breaking the terms - something like you're running a business through it, letting it out, that kind of thing. Substitute with the landlord if you rent.
7. Messages that are written with a view to publication. Expect some ridiculous comments in them such as 'like when you attacked me with that weapon and said you'd kill them before I ever saw them again'.
8. Messages to your GP saying you're having a mental breakdown/psychotic break.

It gets rather boring after a while.

As someone who went through absolute hell and paid £££££ through lawyers to my ex accountable, you can apply for a Schedule 1 order. I have school fees and 50% of all school-related costs mandated through the court. I supplied all info to CMS and had CM increase from a measly £75 to a decent figure. It’s possible but you need to be able to fight.

You will be lumbered with fees if he decides not to pay despite you both signing the contract.

School fees are hardly essential like child maintenance payments. He could cancel the contract and (after a notice period) enrol them in a state school? He can't be forced to pay for a luxury/unnecessary aspect of his children's lives I assume.

Ah ok thanks, that’s helpful (ignoring the why didn’t you… ).

We weren’t married thank goodness!!

I earn a high income and also have a second job that’s my contingency. He earns about 1/3 of what I do. He declares less than half of that.

So I’m gathering that it’s unlikely that a court would touch this anyway.

Private education was is absolutely a choice and I’m pleased with the children’s school. They’re thriving. I will do all I can to make sure they can continue.

Thanks everyone for your advice/experience, it’s helping me to get some perspective on this 🙏

Thing is - I have known a non-resident parent threaten to refuse or withdraw permission for a child to attend a particular independent school. The judge was not impressed, but you don’t need this complication in your life, so I would endeavour to keep him as separate as possible, even if that means you’re stuck with paying all the fees.

Are you too well off to apply for bursaries?

It’s my understanding that we would both need to consent to a change if school.

Ah, crossed you. It sounds as if you do earn too much. (In a way it’s a shame - independent schools IME like to help out single parents.)

Do the school know the history? I am a teacher and it is so useful to have the background of children, especially in cases like this. I don’t mean that I as the teacher need to know, but someone at the school should.