Page 2 | Are we actually both responsible for school fees?

Icandefinitelydothis · 2023-10-01T07:05:51+00:00

Hi, I wonder if anyone has any experience they can share. My ex and father of my two children is coercive. It took me 2.5 years of planning to get him out of my house and it was very difficult. Nevertheless he’s been gone a while now and life for the three of us at home is all the better for it. My planning included making sure I earned enough to pay for absolutely every aspect of the children’s lives. The reason is, he manipulates his income to pay minimal, if any, child maintenance. I saw this with his ex, where CMS took him to court and won. He’s doing the same with me as I knew he would. I’m genuinely torn about what to do….. I can cover the children’s school fees and I do so happily. But, he has jointly signed a contract saying we are both jointly and severally liable for them and that covers their whole time at the school, until they’re 11. Has anyone had any experience of leveraging this to get part payment of fees? Or is it simply a case of him saying that he can’t pay so I’m solely responsible because I can? Or maybe the peace is worth not even going there…… Any advice and experience gratefully received. Thanks 😊

Original poster

Icandefinitelydothis · 01/10/2023 09:20

GoddessOnTheHighway · 01/10/2023 09:02

In what world is this sort of victim blaming and acceptable response to a practical question such as that from the OP?

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Thank you @GoddessOnTheHighway

Calling it out is important. Appreciate that.

OP posts:

prh47bridge · 01/10/2023 09:22

SlippySarah · 01/10/2023 09:11

School fees are hardly essential like child maintenance payments. He could cancel the contract and (after a notice period) enrol them in a state school? He can't be forced to pay for a luxury/unnecessary aspect of his children's lives I assume.

You are wrong in all respects.

If he wants to take the children out of private school, he needs OP's agreement or a court order. He cannot unilaterally move them to a different school.

As OP and her ex have clearly agreed to have their children privately educated, the courts may order him to make a contribution towards school fees in addition to any child maintenance. Whether they will depends on the facts of the case if OP takes him to court.

Original poster

Icandefinitelydothis · 01/10/2023 09:22

NeverDropYourMooncup · 01/10/2023 09:06

Oh, I know how this one goes.

Report to Social Services. Probably includes photographs of things around or outside your home, such as the bins on collection day to 'show' the place is full of rubbish/alcohol/evidence of prostitution and drug use.
Report to RSPCA if you have any pets.
Emails to your employer/regulatory body regarding all of the above and your sexual behaviour.
HMRC reports of fraud.
Probably a speculative report of benefit fraud even if you don't actually claim any benefits, just on the offchance.
Report to your mortgage lender that you're breaking the terms - something like you're running a business through it, letting it out, that kind of thing. Substitute with the landlord if you rent.
Messages that are written with a view to publication. Expect some ridiculous comments in them such as 'like when you attacked me with that weapon and said you'd kill them before I ever saw them again'.
Messages to your GP saying you're having a mental breakdown/psychotic break.

It gets rather boring after a while.

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Goodness!

There are some on here I’ve not thought of, thanks 🙏🏻

OP posts:

BettyBoomer · 01/10/2023 09:26

I dont have any advice OP. I only know of one case where the mother said to the STBXH “can we go 50/50 on school fees” and the father refused and said “take them out of private school, I don’t care”.

the kids were already going through turmoil at the parents separating, having to sell the family home etc so the mum wanted to put the kids first and keep them in their school so they had some sense of stability while they went through such upsetting life changes. So she pays the fees herself. It’s a huge struggle for her but she does it.

ignore the victim-blamers. Some people don’t have anything helpful to say. I wish all the best of luck to you. You’re doing a fantastic job and well done on planning and executing your exit - you’ve made a better life for you and your kids.

Original poster

Icandefinitelydothis · 01/10/2023 09:31

OhBeAFineGuyKissMe · 01/10/2023 09:20

Do the school know the history? I am a teacher and it is so useful to have the background of children, especially in cases like this. I don’t mean that I as the teacher need to know, but someone at the school should.

They do and there have been legal matters including Non-mol order.

I’ve seen nothing but kindness and support from them. They have a safeguarding team who know and so do the children’s teachers. I did ask that it’s on a ‘need to know’ basis and they have been entirely respectful.

I really value any advice and support they offer.

OP posts:

MILLYmo0se · 01/10/2023 09:37

It is helpful if people like your GP, the childrens school, maybe your employer (if you are comfortable sharing the information there, some companies are better than others at supporting their staff through difficult situations) are aware of how difficult a man he is and the threats just in case he does take these kind of actions, rather than you being on the back foot trying to explain things after he starts a campaign against you.
I wouldnt bother discussing school fees with him, its giving him an excuse to communicate with you and another way to control and uoset matters. Sail along in your own happy life with your children, go through the offical process for CM, take whatever you get and let him into your mind and life as little as possible

Original poster

Icandefinitelydothis · 01/10/2023 09:38

BettyBoomer · 01/10/2023 09:26

I dont have any advice OP. I only know of one case where the mother said to the STBXH “can we go 50/50 on school fees” and the father refused and said “take them out of private school, I don’t care”.

the kids were already going through turmoil at the parents separating, having to sell the family home etc so the mum wanted to put the kids first and keep them in their school so they had some sense of stability while they went through such upsetting life changes. So she pays the fees herself. It’s a huge struggle for her but she does it.

ignore the victim-blamers. Some people don’t have anything helpful to say. I wish all the best of luck to you. You’re doing a fantastic job and well done on planning and executing your exit - you’ve made a better life for you and your kids.

Edited

Thanks so much @BettyBoomer, that sounds like a horrendous experience, I’m so sorry.

Wishing you luck and happiness also

OP posts:

margotmargeaux · 01/10/2023 09:38

BranchGold · 01/10/2023 08:49

What attracted you to marry and choose this man as the father of his children knowing the character he was? You stayed and chose him, knowing how he treated his existing children?

Irrelevant to the OPs question.

Original poster

Icandefinitelydothis · 01/10/2023 09:50

Icandefinitelydothis · 01/10/2023 09:38

Thanks so much @BettyBoomer, that sounds like a horrendous experience, I’m so sorry.

Wishing you luck and happiness also

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Wishing them, apologies 😊

OP posts:

Bloomingmagnolia · 01/10/2023 10:15

Aixellency · 01/10/2023 09:14

Thing is - I have known a non-resident parent threaten to refuse or withdraw permission for a child to attend a particular independent school. The judge was not impressed, but you don’t need this complication in your life, so I would endeavour to keep him as separate as possible, even if that means you’re stuck with paying all the fees.

Are you too well off to apply for bursaries?

I was in this situation. Ex threatened to withhold fees. The Judge was disgusted. Private school fees aren’t a necessity, but the Court will take into account the child’s history and what is in the best interest of the child. You need to produce every shred of evidence regarding his hidden earnings.

Newestname002 · 01/10/2023 10:37

@NeverDropYourMooncup

On my - some people are just plain evil. 🌹

Original poster

Icandefinitelydothis · 01/10/2023 11:28

Thank you everyone for your advice and experience, it’s been really helpful.

OP posts:

TeenagersAngst · 01/10/2023 11:31

Fairydustandsparklylights · 01/10/2023 08:59

@TeenagersAngst the pp was probably not very helpful but they’re right. Op stood by and watched her dh screw the other ex left, right and centre to the point CMS took him to court, mainly because it meant she was better off financially. Now she’s realising he’s doing the same to her.

I would imagine a coercive partner is very good at painting his ex in a certain light and being economical with the truth.

It's so easy to judge from afar. OP is asking for help having worked hard to extricate herself from an awful situation. A little empathy would go a long way.

Original poster

Icandefinitelydothis · 01/10/2023 12:06

Fairydustandsparklylights · 01/10/2023 08:59

@TeenagersAngst the pp was probably not very helpful but they’re right. Op stood by and watched her dh screw the other ex left, right and centre to the point CMS took him to court, mainly because it meant she was better off financially. Now she’s realising he’s doing the same to her.

Sorry you’ve incorrectly assumed there @Fairydustandsparklylights on so many aspects.

My knowledge on that is retrospective. I learned after, with some information coming unsolicited from the ex, some from other avenues as I’ve been through my journey of planning and then separation.

The court order from CMS was discovered months after we’d separated.

There was no standing by on my part.

We weren't married.

Being in a relationship with this individual has never benefitted me financially. It has cost me a substantial amount and I never concluded that it would benefit me, even prior to him moving in.

As I mentioned above, victim blaming like your comments do come about, mostly I think through lack of knowledge and understanding rather than malice.

it used to really affect me, sadly at a time when I was lowest and trying my best to get out. An excellent therapist helped massively with that and now I have better perspective.

OP posts:

PinkFrogss · 01/10/2023 12:15

If he earns 1/3 of what you do could he even afford school fees?

If you’re concerned over not being able to pay them, or having to work so much to pay them is taking a toll on you, I would just move them to state school. If you really want them to be privately educated then depending on their age you could move them to state for the rest of primary and then save for secondary.

Original poster

Icandefinitelydothis · 01/10/2023 12:38

He’s retired early from his previous career, which was much higher income. When he moved in with me, his income from work reduced significantly. He has other income in addition and a house without a mortgage (not mine), assets and investments. He has no PAYE job.

While his disposable income is lower than mine, he has the ability to contribute a proportion.

As mentioned above, I planned to cover all as the children are settled and happy.

OP posts:

OhBeAFineGuyKissMe · 03/10/2023 06:55

For those victim blaming I think this verse from Oliva Ridrego Vampire is useful to keep in mind.

And every girl I ever talked to told me you were bad, bad news
You called them crazy, God, I hate the way I called them crazy too
You're so convincing
How do you lie without flinching?

Chocolatepopcorn · 03/10/2023 10:11

Surely the fact that the OP wasn't married is relevant? I thought the NRP is only eligible to pay CMS but something like school fees wouldn't be enforceable.

prh47bridge · 03/10/2023 10:29

Chocolatepopcorn · 03/10/2023 10:11

Surely the fact that the OP wasn't married is relevant? I thought the NRP is only eligible to pay CMS but something like school fees wouldn't be enforceable.

No, it is not relevant. The courts can order OP's ex to pay or make a contribution towards school fees regardless of the fact they were never married. The only thing that is relevant is that he is the children's father.

Bloomingmagnolia · 05/10/2023 14:05

prh47bridge · 03/10/2023 10:29

No, it is not relevant. The courts can order OP's ex to pay or make a contribution towards school fees regardless of the fact they were never married. The only thing that is relevant is that he is the children's father.

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Correct. I wasn’t married and successfully got an order for fees via the court.

Lafoosa · 08/11/2023 08:36

Not sure if this post is still active or not, but if this were me I'd probably not bother to try and get him to pay fees so it minimises any abuse you might get from him.

I can completely empathise with you here, my ex is very similar. Coercive, abusive and very manipulative and I didn't realise it until baby 2 when he started punching holes in our walls and telling all his friends I was a psycho. Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to get myself financially stable before leaving him because I just had to do it and leave immediately because he kept assaulting me while I slept and he got me pregnant with 1 and 3 in an attempt to force me to stay with him as he knew I'd be scared to go through the newborn stage alone and he knew I wanted out. (Both times he took advantage of me having had a night out and being drunk an unable to consent).

There's absolutely no way he'd win custody in court and I doubt he'd even go down that route, it's just a threat used to scare you into doing what he wants you to. Men like him don't actually want full responsibility for their children, they just want ways to hurt you.

Whatever you decide or have decided to do, you've got this!

Nightlite888 · 19/11/2023 19:30

Very similar situation here.
controlling coercive ex (was divorced with 2 kids when I met him, he was the ‘victim’ and she was the ‘crazy ex’), child put on child protection with social services, we separated, abusive towards me and neglectful/borderline abusive towards our DS), threatened to withdraw school fees for DS that he had paid on account because he ‘needed’ thd money for his adult DD. Have a non molestation order against him and he is now seeking 50/50 to spite me (and avoid paying CM which he has either not paid or underpaid in past )

in the middle of nasty Court battle. I am doing all I can to maintain consistency for DS snd applying for private school bursaries..

good luck to all of us