Son needs an operation following camp, is there negligence

[Cubic]

My son went on an organised camp with a well known youth organisation. He fell playing a game and has dislocated his shoulder. It has since dislocated again and the consultant says he now needs an operation to strengthen the joint and hopefully stop it dislocating in the future.

Mil has suggested we look into a personal injury claim but I'm not sure there is any negligence on the part of the camp, it was an accident. She's raised the point that it could cause problems in different areas of his life etc

Has anyone any experience of something similar or know if it would be classed as negligence? Surely accidents are just accidents sometimes?

I've no idea why people are so aghast at the thought of an INSURED company being sued
Because it was a complete accident and not remotely the company's fault?

Circumstances in which it might be reasonable to sue:

The game was being played in an area unsuitable for the variety of game - eg rugby being played on a basket ball court such that the surface was too hard/there were other hazards like metal bollards in the playing area which contributed to the accident.

The game was being played with a huge range of physical size and strength of players when it would be more reasonably be played with players of broadly similar size (e.g. 16yos who are basically full-adult-size and weedy prepubescent 11yos in the same game) and this mismatch contributed to the impact of the incident.

• These are the sorts of things where a reasonable risk assessment would highlight "hang on this is asking for trouble" and therefore an adequate risk assessment wasn't done.

If it's not in this category then don't bother suing.

The organisation will legally have to hold public liability insurance which will typically cover them for being sued for up to £5m or £10m per incident (maximum- obviously a dislocated shoulder isn't anything like worthy of that kind of level) so if you think there was a genuine failure to make an adequate risk assessment then it's fine to sue, if your complaint is upheld the insurance policy pays out, and the sum involved will be a pittance on the scale of what the insurance company often deals with so it won't be a very significant issue.

Please, for gods sake, don't do this.

@AliOlis you have such limited information, you can't possibly decide whether there has been any negligence or errors.

Presumably op has more, and she accepts it was an accident.

Would you sue your Mum if she was in care of your son and he had an accident? Does she risk assess everything before your son comes over and May trip or fall?

Honestly as a mother focus and your son and taking care of him & the operation he needs.

Don't such groups/camps usually get the parents to sign a Parent Consent form / disclaimer advising that there will be physical exercise and to accept that there is a risk of injury, etc.?

Accidents are indeed just accidents, and I agree with the general consensus that this isn't negligence, it's just bad luck.

However - dislocating from simply falling over while running on grass seems to be quite a lot of injury for not much trauma. He's been very unlucky there.

Does he have a history of other dislocations? Hypermobility (sometimes known as being 'double jointed')? Other weird stuff going on with his body - even if it's just all been put down to coincidence in the past? If so, have a look at the connective tissue disorders - particularly Hypermobility Ehlers Danlos Syndrome - and see if you have an 'aha!' moment.

I thought you were going to say he had been doing something like rock climbing without the equipment. He fell over on the grass that could have happened any time he played out .Sorry he has been hurt and hopefully the surgery is successful. Accidents happen that why they are called accidents.

This wasn't a grazed knee. It was a dislocation with a reoccurrence within hours and a broken bone (didn't previously mention as the lesser of the injuries).

It was an activity in addition to what was agreed. No risk assessment as it wasn't a planned activity. In son's own words 'the field was full of rocks'.

I did not agree with mil but sure as he'll will defend my right to ask a question and her right to suggest a course of action concerning her grandson. If I was to claim that claim wouldn't result in your children losing their activities and as for those that have said my child did x,y and z and I didn't think of suing that is your choice, I can make any I choose.

Some 'accidents' are caused by negligence and yes some are accidents.

I'm also glad I started this thread as I hadn't considered the insurance aspect so thank you to the couple of helpful posters.

If you sign your kid up for camp you will have signed a form stating they are not responsible for accidents and you won’t sue. Unless there is a clear case for negligence then it will be pointless to try and claim.

some people have the US mentality of if there’s a blame there’s a claim.

There should have been a risk assessment. However, whilst that is evidence of possible negligence, it is not conclusive on its own. If the activity was potentially dangerous and was not adequately supervised, that may give rise to a claim. However, if it was just an accident and there was no negligence, there is no claim.

Has negligence occurred? At least 2 of the four requirements are met - company owed a duty and injury occurred, however, not sure from info provided the other 2 parts were - there was a failure of a duty and the breech caused the injury.

If genuinely concerned about others, you need to report to ofsted/regulators they can check if there has been a breach and the company can rectify if necessary, taking negligence case doesn't mean they would change.

If you believe there was something wrong with where or how, e.g lots of pot holes that caused a tipping hazard. A risk assessment and control measures reduce risk as low as possible, but you can't eliminate risk. If they delayed arranging first aid, that might be negligent or provided the wrong first aid, due to lack of training again maybe negligent. However, if you think it was an accident, really consider if there was actual negligence or just part of play.

If that is truly the case, then your mind should be quite at ease. Kids fall, kids get hurt. This would be like people suing bike companies because their kids fell off the bike because they took their feet off the pedals, so the bike company should have known that would happen. Sounds pretty silly, right?

If the camp had been having children jump 12 feet off a tower or rock climb up a 60 ft wall without a belay or had them all fight until "last man standing", then you would have reason for concern and claim. But, a chase game? What "negligence" has you or your MIL come up with in this situation? Will it happen again if you don't sue? Yes, because kids fall and some get hurt worse because of pre-existing conditions (like a weak joint to start). If you sue, kids will still be falling and getting hurt, just not at that camp because they will either make all the kids stay seat and no running or there just will not be a camp at all.

This is my bread and butter.

I don't discourage people from making a claim if they have grounds to do so but you don't seem to have identified any negligence.

How do you believe the organisers were unreasonable? How could they have prevented the accident? It is more complicated than this but this is a starting point.

Lack of a risk assessment is not sufficient to bring a claim. Written risk assessments are not a legal requirement most of the time but they are best practice.

I think your MIL is wrong on this one. Obviously it would be different if he'd had an accident caused by faulty safety equipment or an inappropriate playing surface, but falling over while playing a game on a grass pitch wouldn't come under that umbrella.

I think your MIL is perhaps thinking more about the seriousness of his injury, which was obviously significant, than about the actual circumstances in which it occurred. But ultimately this was still just a normal fall that you could reasonably expect to occur in a game of that nature, and the severity of the resulting injury is purely down to bad luck.

(I actually have a similar example from my own childhood - I took a totally normal, light tumble, the sort of that you'd typically just get up from unscathed without even pausing, and as a result of a freak combination of circumstances ended up spending a very long period in and out of hospital, using crutches, wearing various casts and braces, being dosed up with grim medications and ultimately having to learn how to walk properly again.)

Blame and claim culture rears its ugly head again. 🙄

Please tell your MIL to remove the pound signs from the front of her eyes. Accidents happen, kids fall over all the time.

This ^ but we all know from the replies, she's going to claim! This blame claim world we live in is so just wrong.

A risk assessment for a game of chase? Is this a joke?

There is negligence as if the field was ‘full of rocks’ it should have been predictable that someone falling would sustain a more serious injury than falling into grass and therefore a different game or location should have been chosen.
I would definitely get some legal advice.

He fell ffs!!!!!

You’re way off the mark! He fell on a field. It was an ACCIDENT. Has he never fallen over with you? Perhaps MIL would do a PI claim against you. Can’t believe you even need to post about this.. really shows how money grabbing people are.

Yeah, it went from a "grassed area" to a "field full of rocks!" when op wasn't getting the responses she hoped for. I'm sceptical tbh.

yes.. claim away and get your money. But people like you make people working to provide opportunities like this not want to bother. You’ll push up the insurance costs which will increase costs to others going there or even shut down the camp. But you’ll have your payout because your child fell in a field.

Not true those forms aren't worth the paper they are written on. Where there is negligence the other party can claim on there insurance.