Son needs an operation following camp, is there negligence

[Cubic]

My son went on an organised camp with a well known youth organisation. He fell playing a game and has dislocated his shoulder. It has since dislocated again and the consultant says he now needs an operation to strengthen the joint and hopefully stop it dislocating in the future.

Mil has suggested we look into a personal injury claim but I'm not sure there is any negligence on the part of the camp, it was an accident. She's raised the point that it could cause problems in different areas of his life etc

Has anyone any experience of something similar or know if it would be classed as negligence? Surely accidents are just accidents sometimes?

How do you know there were no risk assessments? Have you asked?

They don't need a risk assessment for specific activities unless they're wildly different to "Business as Usual" so most activities will be covered by the general risk assessment they'll have completed as a business.

The idea that any organisation working with children has no risk assessment is pretty unlikely - even volunteer groups need them these days because we live in such a litigious society where many people think they're entitled to something.

The onus would be on you to prove negligence rather than the other way around with such a common accident. If you appointed lawyers and lost - the bill wouldn't be pretty to look at.

Insurance isn’t just about covering negligence. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to see if there is insurance that covers accidental injury. Camps that engage in physical activity often include it (and you will have paid for it in the fees).

Also - Not all accidents are an inherent risk of taking part. Some times there is negligence. An organized activity, especially if it was one with a paid professional instructor to lead, should be minimizing the opportunity for accidents. If they didn’t do that and DS’s accident could have been avoided if they did, then there is negligence. This seems less likely than it just being an accident, but since you haven’t gone over the details of what happened, it can’t be ruled out.

Professional instructors will have insurance to cover themselves for such incidents, which you will also have paid for, indirectly, through your fees. The only time I think it might be inappropriate to look into a claim in these sorts of circumstances would be if the person supervising was a volunteer whose insurance you hadn’t contributed to.

Having said all that - what sort of compensation would you be looking for? Has DS suffered any losses that money would actually ameliorate?

The thing is that in a risk assessment for running about on grass, the only way one could ensure no child ever fell over is to ban running about on grass and walk only. I don't think any of us want to live in a world where organisations cannot allow kids to run about on grass in case they hurt themselves.
Please don't consider claiming anything, looking for blame in these sorts of situations only results in a sadder, less fit, less fun society and childhoods.

What is mil saying was the negligence?

OP I work in a similar field. There will have been generalised risk assessments for all activities, more specific ones for any riskier activities (eg. climbing), plus trained first aiders on site and an accident/injury protocol. In general, a good, comprehensive generalised risk assessment will cover the vast majority of possibilities/activities taking place, including a physical game (except for something like contact rugby where personally I’d say a different RA would be suitable). As a PP mentioned, they will also be insured. They have to have these things in order to operate.

You can only mitigate risk, you can’t ever completely erase it. As a parent, you acknowledge this when you send your children to be looked after by other people. Accidents happen and I think it would be unwise of you to claim as I think you’d be disappointed with the outcome. Have you told the organisation how you feel or discussed it with them?

The camp should get one of these to ensure no running about in future, no more sporting activities in case of injury, sitting drawing only with crayons so no risk of sharp pencils/pens. There will already be a risk assessment re risk of papercuts?

Your MIL sounds unhinged.

Not only was it an accident but going through court takes a lot of time and money.

Even if by some miracle you won the case, you’d only get an amount for what you lost either emotionally of financially.
This amount wouldn’t even be worth it.

No risk assessments for the activity were made.

This seems enormously unlikely. How do you know this?

A risk assessment doesn’t need to stop all risk of accident. It should minimize unnecessary risk. Risk that is inherent to the activity is normally acceptable providing, where that risk is greater than participants would reasonably be expected to already know, they are informed that there is inherent risk.

For instance, a risk assessment for running about on grass might include (amoung other things) having an alternative if the grass is wet, or a requirement that participants wear studs, or that participants are informed that running on wet grass includes an increased chance of injury (or that might be taken as read if the running is the sort of running participants can be expected to have done in their day-to-day life anyway and so will already be aware of increased risk).

If it was something that could have been foreseen then yes, sue the hell out of them. If it’s was an accident then don’t do anything. Sometimes children fall over and hurt themselves. If you were to sue you are probably putting an end to the camp forever.

If you try and make a claim then they’ll stop playing this game. Or stop running the camp. And soon there’ll be no fun left in the world. Do you want a world with no fun?

Life carries risk. Without it, it would be a boring life.

They'd have insurance to cover any claims against them.

OP - what is the negligent act? There doesn't sound like there is one.

I think kids have accidents. In Scot’s law in order to have a compensation claim you need to have a duty of care
a breach of that duty of care
an injury
causation

I think that you would struggle to find that they were in breach of the duty of care unless they were playing somewhere dangerous/ other children had suffered similar injury etc.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to claim for preventable injuries when someone is at fault but sometimes life just happens and it’s no one’s fault.

This is why kids can't have fun. We did all of the above sure accidents happened but we healed. DS broke his arm at nursery as they weren't watching him closely enough but he was with friends in the garden and learned not to use a bike as a step ladder. Didn't even think about suing

And this is the world we live in!

He's a kid, playing what sounds like a perfectly ordinary game with mates and he fell. How is anyone accountable for that? Unless there's something more where the organisation he was with purposely had them playing a potentially dangerous game or an activity where he was likely to fall or injure himself.

If not, it was an accident and nobody has been negligent.

An accident. How could anybody be to blame but your son for falling over?

My son broke his shoulder in a bike race- didn't occur to him to sue.

What was the nature of the negligence that you are going to allege when it comes to court? What could have been done differently? Was it just an accident?

Would you be happy for your child to spend days sitting indoors because camps and sports clubs don't want to take the risk of being sued?

My DD went through a whole spate of accidents at nursery and school - broken wrist x 4, broken elbow, broken thumb - they were all just accidents, noone was to blame or negligent. DD had underlying conditions and was, years later, diagnosed with ASD and EDS (hypermobility)

There won’t be anyone at all to look after kids in the future, let alone fun activities. if parents sue for every accident.

What aspect does your MIL think was negligent? Was she at the activity?

I am going to presume that your MIL's name is A. Chaser for short and her full title is Ambulance Chaser.

I came on to say this. Surely you claim on the camp insurance.

I'm not an injury lawyer but I think you've got ether until they're 18 or 3 years from when they turn 18 to claim

Certain injuries can cause life long problems - osteoporosis etc (no idea if your child's injury is one of them) so there is no rush to claim - you'd be waiting for some level of recovery anyway.

I've no idea why people are so aghast at the thought of an INSURED company being sued. I can't imagine a court saying they'd expect a game of chase to have been risk assessed tbh. And if that's the best argument, then it's probably not a runner. But check your insurance policies and see if have access to a legal hotline and you can run it past a solicitor.

I think your thoughts are correct.

in what way was someone/the organisation negligent which led to your son’s injury?

Absolutely.
I broke my ankle on a day out with a volunteering place.
{Hole in sand, I was looking for a loo for one of the people on the trip, so wasn't looking at the beach , but the promenade. I didn't sue for that, as a sheer accident.