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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Oh fuck what is going to happen?

541 replies

notahappybunny7 · 10/09/2023 23:23

My mum has passed away. She has left everything in her will to me(house paid(220k and about 50k in savings)
no other siblings off my mother but my dad has 4 more(no relationship with them)
they're married have been for 40+ years but he’s a twat who’s never worked properly, my mum has grafted her arse off to pay mortgage and ct, he has paid utilities and food, well the basics my mum alway bought her lunches and any luxuries. No joint accounts ever.
I’m not money grabbing it my mum wanted this for me and my daughter, to better our lives, he is saying he’s not moving and will contest the will. What will happen?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
CatusFlatus · 11/09/2023 12:51

pikkumyy77 · 11/09/2023 12:46

I also think OP has to be concerned that the home could be clawed back to pay for his care if he needs a care home. The will, as I understand the situation in the UK, might be seen as defrauding the state.

OP just has to get her head around the fact that on paper the situation looks very different to the courts than it does to her. Legality and morality have nothing to do with each other.

If the house was never his in the first place, which it sounds like legally it wasn't, he just lived there because he was the OP's mother's husband, then the value of the house has nothing to do with funding his care costs. Only his assets can be taken into account, not his wife's.

Throwncrumbs · 11/09/2023 12:51

The mum didn’t divorce because she knew he’d get half the value of the property, so she’s tried to give it all to her daughter on her death, instead she has just left a mess for her daughter to sort out. The solicitor(if there was one) has made a mess here. Or if there was a solicitor I do wonder if the mum and daughter actually mentioned that she was married, I bet that small detail was left out!

HangingByYourFingernails · 11/09/2023 12:54

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 11/09/2023 12:45

Especially not when the father has four other children, any one of whom may be hoping to inherit a share of this in due course.

Quite. The father can be as lazy as he likes - it only takes one of his adult children to decide to fight his case (whether for reasons of filial affection or self-interest).

And even the laziest person can refuse to leave their home and fight eviction (with or without the support of one or more children).

Sisterpita · 11/09/2023 12:55

@CatusFlatus the Dad lives in the Mum’s house I.e. she provided accommodation she paid for. The Dad pays dad £200 the Mum £500 for bills etc. fairly obvious the Dad was being subsidised by his wife and so was financially dependent on her for water, heating, lighting, accommodation etc.

Try reading my posts I have not said what he is entitled too just suggested a possible way forward which keeps the house for the op.

CatusFlatus · 11/09/2023 12:55

Throwncrumbs · 11/09/2023 12:51

The mum didn’t divorce because she knew he’d get half the value of the property, so she’s tried to give it all to her daughter on her death, instead she has just left a mess for her daughter to sort out. The solicitor(if there was one) has made a mess here. Or if there was a solicitor I do wonder if the mum and daughter actually mentioned that she was married, I bet that small detail was left out!

We don't know the wording of the will. It's usual when disinheriting a close relative (partner or child) to either leave them a token amount or state that they are specifically excluded. This shows that it was a deliberate act rather than an oversight making it harder to challenge.

Challenging a will is difficult and rarely succeeds (unlike on the TV or in films).

CatusFlatus · 11/09/2023 13:01

Sisterpita · 11/09/2023 12:55

@CatusFlatus the Dad lives in the Mum’s house I.e. she provided accommodation she paid for. The Dad pays dad £200 the Mum £500 for bills etc. fairly obvious the Dad was being subsidised by his wife and so was financially dependent on her for water, heating, lighting, accommodation etc.

Try reading my posts I have not said what he is entitled too just suggested a possible way forward which keeps the house for the op.

I wasn't saying you'd said he was entitled to anything just that some posters are saying that. It's wrong and perpetuates the myth.

Sorry if you thought it was directed at you, it wasn't.

I just don't think anyone who doesn't have the full facts, and none of us do we're just piecing together what the OP has said and we haven't seen the will, should be giving advice other than 'don't panic, go and see a solicitor'.

DisquietintheRanks · 11/09/2023 13:01

@CatusFlatus you can't just disinherit a spouse like that in England, it's literally not possible, no matter what the wording of the will. And there is no question that the OPs father will be successful in challenging the will, the only question being if he gets half or more than half.

Moveoverdarlin · 11/09/2023 13:02

They were married and married for years EVERYTHING is a matrimonial asset. You are just aggrieved because he isn’t a nice man, unfortunately the law doesn’t recognise decent people and nasty people. When you went to the solicitor 8 years ago, you and your mother should have pursued a divorce and a water tight will. It all seems a mess, your Mum has left everything to you, but 50 percent of everything is your fathers.

Can you hold tight until your father dies? He seems in ill health, or are you concerned his 4 other children will stake a claim?

HarrietJet · 11/09/2023 13:03

CatusFlatus · 11/09/2023 12:55

We don't know the wording of the will. It's usual when disinheriting a close relative (partner or child) to either leave them a token amount or state that they are specifically excluded. This shows that it was a deliberate act rather than an oversight making it harder to challenge.

Challenging a will is difficult and rarely succeeds (unlike on the TV or in films).

I'd lay good odds on this being one of the less difficult to challenge ones...

SueVineer · 11/09/2023 13:04

CrabbiesGingerBeer · 11/09/2023 11:51

Completely irrelevant since they were married. It’s legally their matrimonial asset and the OP’s father has a legal right to the share he would have got on divorce (which since he is disabled and a lower earner will if anything be more than 50%).

Not correct. He may challenge the will as not making reasonable provision as he was a dependent. He may be awarded 50% but he doesn’t have a right to it.

SueVineer · 11/09/2023 13:05

HarrietJet · 11/09/2023 13:03

I'd lay good odds on this being one of the less difficult to challenge ones...

Why?

SueVineer · 11/09/2023 13:06

Moveoverdarlin · 11/09/2023 13:02

They were married and married for years EVERYTHING is a matrimonial asset. You are just aggrieved because he isn’t a nice man, unfortunately the law doesn’t recognise decent people and nasty people. When you went to the solicitor 8 years ago, you and your mother should have pursued a divorce and a water tight will. It all seems a mess, your Mum has left everything to you, but 50 percent of everything is your fathers.

Can you hold tight until your father dies? He seems in ill health, or are you concerned his 4 other children will stake a claim?

There is no such thing as matrimonial assets other than on divorce. Ops mother had her own property which she was entitled to leave to whoever she chose.

SueVineer · 11/09/2023 13:08

DisquietintheRanks · 11/09/2023 13:01

@CatusFlatus you can't just disinherit a spouse like that in England, it's literally not possible, no matter what the wording of the will. And there is no question that the OPs father will be successful in challenging the will, the only question being if he gets half or more than half.

It is absolutely possible to disinherit a spouse in England. A dependent spouse would have a good case for an inheritance act claim but they don’t succeed in every case.

HarrietJet · 11/09/2023 13:09

SueVineer · 11/09/2023 13:06

There is no such thing as matrimonial assets other than on divorce. Ops mother had her own property which she was entitled to leave to whoever she chose.

Nope.

WhatHoJeeves · 11/09/2023 13:09

@DisquietintheRanks You absolutely can disinherit a spouse in England. And they absolutely can challenge that.

fromdownwest · 11/09/2023 13:10

SueVineer · 11/09/2023 13:06

There is no such thing as matrimonial assets other than on divorce. Ops mother had her own property which she was entitled to leave to whoever she chose.

Correct - she can choose to leave to whomever she wishes, however, the spouse does have a potential legal recourse to the matrimonial assets under The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975.

Skodacool · 11/09/2023 13:10

SueVineer · 11/09/2023 10:13

This isn’t correct. Her mother was the only owner of the property and can leave it to whoever she likes. A person who was financially dependent on her (including but not limited to a spouse) could contest a will that leaves them nothing however.

if I was op, I would get on with probate. It’s up to him to challenge it.

This is the best advice on here

SueVineer · 11/09/2023 13:17

HarrietJet · 11/09/2023 13:09

Nope.

Lol. Yip. There is no such thing as holding property as “matrimonial property”. On divorce, all property held by the parties can be taken into account but otherwise the owners of the property may deal with it as they see fit.

SueVineer · 11/09/2023 13:19

fromdownwest · 11/09/2023 13:10

Correct - she can choose to leave to whomever she wishes, however, the spouse does have a potential legal recourse to the matrimonial assets under The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975.

Yes, as stated he can challenge (as can any other dependent). He may be successful in obtaining some award of property but it’s up to him to do this. The current position is that op has the right to the property.

TheMountainsCall · 11/09/2023 13:20

Anactor · 11/09/2023 12:27

OP you sound shocked and angry. What you need to do is to take a very deep breath, then call a solicitor.

Explain that your father was abusive, that your mother left everything to you. Explain that you see his desire to contest as part of a continuing pattern of abusive control.

Then let them advise you on what rights your father may legally have, and whether you ought to settle or contest.

Unless OP can produce convincing evidence of the abuse, it is just hearsay though. And probably doesn't change the legal situation.

HarrietJet · 11/09/2023 13:21

Fair enough. Just keep on advising op that the house is hers absolutely and she can have him evicted by the weekend 🤷🏻‍♀️

fromdownwest · 11/09/2023 13:21

SueVineer · 11/09/2023 13:19

Yes, as stated he can challenge (as can any other dependent). He may be successful in obtaining some award of property but it’s up to him to do this. The current position is that op has the right to the property.

A good summary.
Short answer, legal advice reuqired.

Barney60 · 11/09/2023 13:23

Challenging a Will under English LawThe law in England & Wales provides a counter balance to Testamentary Freedom through the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependents) Act 1975. The Act sets out categories of people that have the legal standing to challenge another person's Will on the basis that they have not been left reasonable financial provision. This type of legal challenge is frequently seen reported in the press when a celebrity or wealthy individual dies and the relatives are left fighting over how the Estate should be divided.
You can't state in your Will that this Act does not apply. So, technically, whilst you are physically able to exclude your spouse from your Will, this won't prevent them from being able to bring a claim under this Act. If they do bring a successful claim then they could still ultimately be entitled to receive something from your Estate even though your Will says otherwise.
He can claim unless you can prove he was a lodger and paid an amount of rent for his keep.
I think you can get round this by him living in the property until he passes away then you get your inheritance, you really need a good solicitor to state terms like kept in excellent repair to standard is now ect.

TheMountainsCall · 11/09/2023 13:23

HarrietJet · 11/09/2023 12:41

Obviously. But I wouldn't count on someone meekly allowing their home to be sold from under them because they were too lazy to do anything to prevent it.
That just won't happen.

Yes and, to be frank, at 77, I don't think I'd be too concerned about the lingering negative financial implications of going to court either. When you leave someone with nothing to lose, why would they not fight?

Brumbies · 11/09/2023 13:24

It has to go to probate so get a solicitor. Then you'll need a barrister, watch the ££££ go out!