Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Going against court order

76 replies

Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 16:49

My children have a court order whereby they have to see their paternal grandparents.

They have been made increasingly uncomfortable by the grandmother talking about her numerous miscarriages and the American school massacres. They told me when she did this and I told our intermediary (their son) and it stopped.

I’ve recently found out that my younger son has a severe grass allergy and lesser tree allergy and it’s triggering asthma. They were told this and took them to a national park after giving the kids 2 options both of which were parks. I wasn’t consulted except to say that they were going outside. My children told me by messaging me and I told them that they couldn’t take them there and that I would stop access if they did. I have never stopped them going anywhere else. This triggered a 20 minute session of bad nothing me to the children. The children told me about what happened. The grandparents are denying it. I have proven the grandparents to be liars on many occasions but calling my kids liars has now crossed a line.

I’ve over this and the children don’t want to see them now. I showed them the email they sent me (7 pages) and the children said they are lying. My kids are 13 and nearly 12 (in March). Can we stop without going to court? I don’t have the money to go.

OP posts:
hereistopositiveenergy · 28/08/2023 20:39

No, I think there are better ways to establish what happened without putting them in the middle. Showing them the email which likely also contained other frustrations which they shouldn't really be privy to isn't the way.

Instead, asking them what occurred from their perspective followed by letting them know after that differs to what's their grandparents have said however leave it with you as you'll sort it from there. You could then go back to the grandparents with the children's version of events and say let them know in all honesty, it's irrelevant of who done or said what because they know about the allergy, that it's under investigation for the last 12 months and have directly put them in harms way instead of finding other appropriate activities with a lower risk.

Original poster
Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 20:46

@RafaistheKingofClay This sounds hopeful as I can’t afford to go back to court. And I’m not good at dealing with the stress it invokes. Do you have experience of this? Ie are you a legal person?

OP posts:
titchy · 28/08/2023 20:47

Fgs your kid's 13 - there absolutely no need to show them the email at all. They can tell you what happened. You were stirring by showing them that, manipulating them into what you want.

If they were the other parent they'd be accusing you, possibly rightly, of parental alienation. You NEVER involve children in a relationship between adults.

I'm sorry they are crap to you, but see the bigger picture here - they're their only tie to their dead father. You should be encouraging contact, if you don't think they can keep them physically or emotionally safe, and you may have a small point there, then you need to offer short limited safe contact, say a meal out every two weeks some public where they can't bad mouth you.

Original poster
Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 20:50

@hereistopositiveenergy It’s the lying about what the children have said happened that has wound me up completely. They have done this to me for years and I don’t want my children dealing with this. It’s hugely stressful and I don’t see why we should have to put up with it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 20:54

@titchy I’ll be completely honest with you in that I don’t understand how that is alienation if you are showing them what has actually been said. I’m not lying. I’m not telling them a version that isn’t true. They are reading it as it is. If I had done what they grandparents did and fabricated events to suit me then that is alienation surely?

OP posts:
cansu · 28/08/2023 20:55

No one knows the back story but you obviously don't have a good relationship with them or there wouldn't even be a court order. They may well be hideous people who don't give a shit about their grandchildren. If you genuinely think they don't care then crack on. If you think they do love them then it might be worth taking a step back and thinking about what would work. Could you meet without the kids and agree something?

titchy · 28/08/2023 20:55

Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 20:54

@titchy I’ll be completely honest with you in that I don’t understand how that is alienation if you are showing them what has actually been said. I’m not lying. I’m not telling them a version that isn’t true. They are reading it as it is. If I had done what they grandparents did and fabricated events to suit me then that is alienation surely?

Alienation is involving the children in aspects of YOUR relationship with them, with the purpose of making the children see them in a bad light. Which is what you have done.

Original poster
Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 20:56

@cansu absolutely not.

OP posts:
Original poster
Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 20:57

@titchy so being absolutely truthful and transparent is alienation? Wow.

OP posts:
titchy · 28/08/2023 20:59

Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 20:57

@titchy so being absolutely truthful and transparent is alienation? Wow.

I didn't say that. I said showing them to email, to prove something to the children, was totally unnecessary. Their grandparents lied to you. They didn't lie to the children , or tell the children they national park they were in was actually Leeds town centre.

Starlightstarbright2 · 28/08/2023 21:03

One of the reasons you can stop contact is safety reasons .

I would take your court order to a solicitor… get them to see where you stand legally - just be wary of what you say to the children . If they do take it to court CAFCASS may well speak to Dc what you don’t want to be accused of is alienation .

Original poster
Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 21:06

@titchy they are making out my children are liars and put my child in harm’s way because they did not believe me when I told them about his allergies. As far as I am concerned they do not deserve a relationship with my children. And showing the children the email showed me categorically that they are willing to lie about their grandchildren.

OP posts:
RafaistheKingofClay · 28/08/2023 21:06

Not a legal person, hence why I’m not sure about it with a court order in place. I do know from experience that at your children’s age the courts and carcass if involved will take the children’s interests into account.

For the sake of your children though, I probably would try to involve putting the children in the middle of this. Even if you think you are showing the children what the GP are saying about them.

cansu · 28/08/2023 21:07

In that case maybe they shouldn't see the grandparents. Do you think they love the children? Maybe they should have letter contact instead? If you and them have such an adversarial relationship it is hard to see how contact will work.

blackbeardsballsack · 28/08/2023 21:13

At 12 and 13, if they themselves genuinely don't want to see their grandparents they won't be made to. The court isn't going to appoint someone to drag them kicking and screaming to see them.

Original poster
Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 21:31

@cansu I thought that they loved them but these last events have made me doubt it. This court order has been in place for 3 years. It’s not a new thing. As they get to their teenage years I feel they shouldn’t be forced to do anything. Especially if they are willing to lie about what they say to my children. That is completely out of order.

OP posts:
titchy · 28/08/2023 21:31

And showing the children the email showed me categorically that they are willing to lie about their grandchildren.

It did no such thing. You believe
your children when they said A. The GP's email said B. So you knew they were willing to lie about their grandchildren anyway. Showing your children the email did not prove that. All it did was prove to your children that their grandparents would lie to you. And that is really not something that you should involve them in.

Original poster
Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 21:33

@titchy believe what you want. My priority is my children and always has been.

OP posts:
Original poster
Juststopamoment · 28/08/2023 21:35

@RafaistheKingofClay done on a whim and realise in retrospect I shouldn’t have. All I know is that they are dreading having to see them again.

OP posts:
vivainsomnia · 29/08/2023 18:22

I was told by the allergy clinic he had an extreme allergy to grass
I very much doubt they said that. An extreme allergy in clinical term is one where any minor exposure to the allergen causes such symptoms they are likely to die.

This doesn't sound like your son. I have quite bad allergies to grass, mould and other allergens as tested for. I manage it with many treatments given all together.

It doesn't stop me going in walks in grass and forest areas.

I feel that you are looking for excuses to stop the kids going. After all, why did they even had to take you to court to see the children in the first place? Very sad.

Original poster
Juststopamoment · 29/08/2023 20:41

@vivainsomnia well I’m not lying so I don’t really care what you think. This is a legal forum not aibu.

OP posts:
Original poster
Juststopamoment · 29/08/2023 20:43

@vivainsomnia and the majority of allergy sufferers agree with me.

OP posts:
TurkeyHolidayPlanning · 29/08/2023 23:07

Frankly asthma can kill so I would be furious at them not taking that seriously l.

I also think the conversations were highly inappropriate

vivainsomnia · 30/08/2023 09:09

Well they did take the boy to the park and he did survive it and didn't even need to go to hospital so the allergy can't be that extreme or severe.

BobLemon · 30/08/2023 10:12

I hope this ends up back in court, so someone independent with the DCs well-being as their priority can be appointed.