Going against court order

[Juststopamoment]

My children have a court order whereby they have to see their paternal grandparents.

They have been made increasingly uncomfortable by the grandmother talking about her numerous miscarriages and the American school massacres. They told me when she did this and I told our intermediary (their son) and it stopped.

I’ve recently found out that my younger son has a severe grass allergy and lesser tree allergy and it’s triggering asthma. They were told this and took them to a national park after giving the kids 2 options both of which were parks. I wasn’t consulted except to say that they were going outside. My children told me by messaging me and I told them that they couldn’t take them there and that I would stop access if they did. I have never stopped them going anywhere else. This triggered a 20 minute session of bad nothing me to the children. The children told me about what happened. The grandparents are denying it. I have proven the grandparents to be liars on many occasions but calling my kids liars has now crossed a line.

I’ve over this and the children don’t want to see them now. I showed them the email they sent me (7 pages) and the children said they are lying. My kids are 13 and nearly 12 (in March). Can we stop without going to court? I don’t have the money to go.

Their dead father?

@Theshining82 i think you’ll find that it’s more extreme in a national park 🤔

I thought OP said the GP son had died so assumed it was the children's father.

I think given kids ages their wishes should be taken into account but honestly I'd save up and take some proper legal advice and get walked though possible outcomes as you do give impression grandparents will be difficult if they are not happy.

Just to be clear the children’s dad died and these are his parents. It’s interesting isn’t it. If I had someone’s child with me and they had a severe grass and tree allergy I personally would not take them to a national park but it seems most people would.

Do you not have ANY grass or trees where you live?

I think you're getting a hard time OP - people have extreme allergies to things, things that might be commonly around, but they don't go out of their way to find entire areas dedicated to them!

My friend is allergic to cats, brings on an asthma attack, can be controlled for a short time with anti-histamines. He would use them to visit someone with a cat for a short while, but would prefer if he could meet them somewhere away from cats where possible.

The GPs taking a child just starting to figure out how his asthma and allergies interact, to a national park, is an extreme indifference to that child's health.

@Soontobe60 i don’t live in the middle of a national park or near any fields and I don’t spend 3-4 hours on fields or large areas of grass. So that is the direct comparison.

@RecycleMePlease Thank you for understanding.

Your concern should be that this would be the view of a judge, not it being posed as a question on an internet forum.

Without extensive medical evidence confirming he has this incredibly severe allergy, it will likely be interpreted as an excuse. This could include financial penalties or imprisonment.

However, as I did say, rather than get dragged up in front of a judge who thinks you're talking nonsense, you would be able to return to court to apply for a variation if the children do not wish to be compelled to remain in contact.

PP questioning how bad it can be- I had huge reactions to grasses and pollens as a child (tests counted over 100 types at 8yo) I spent most of my childhood stoned on phenergan & benadryl & loratidine whenever I went to the park or camping. I now am allergic to 2/3 of those drugs & have multiple auto-immune diseases and just as much medication and more (38 years on daily antihistamines and asthma meds to keep me stable). The GPs are selfish twits. And lucky your kids are now old enough to say no. Grey rock them in conversation and get some Dr evidence/letter to share with them on stone cold emotionless email reply. They might back down out of love for their late son. But don't hold your breath.

@Firsttimecaller Sounds awful. My son is just starting his journey.

@Firsttimecaller Great advice from you. Thank you. I’m pretty sure I’m right about protecting him.

@NeverDropYourMooncup I would describe the grass allergy as a trigger to what went on afterwards. They are bullies and liars and they’ve always accused me of lying as a way of deflecting their own lies. And now they are lying about what they said to my children. It messes with your head. I don’t want this for my children.

I think people are being ridiculous on here. Of course being in a National park is different to a tiny bit of grass in your garden 🤦🏻‍♀️.
Have no advice OP as not been through the legal system for anything like that, but it sounds like a toxic relationship. If the kids don't want to see them, I wouldn't force them at all. Being a blood relative doesn't give someone the right to act however horribly they want.

@Theshining82 You aren’t very helpful are you? Why are you commenting? Trolling much?

It’s interesting isn’t it. If I had someone’s child with me and they had a severe grass and tree allergy I personally would not take them to a national park but it seems most people would.

I wouldn't either but I've had to deal with DGP who think allergies and asthma are overblown new stuff - even though some in their generation have died or nearly so from asthma attacks - and found what had previously been a easy to avoid food item when needing to be avoided suddenly cant be avoided.

At times it like I say they can't do x for reasons and suddenly x is being done all the time.

It taken time united front and me making sure a person who they'd listen to gave information - so sadly I can image without that being very stuck.

To those who think a Piriton will solve everything. I have a severe tree pollen allergy, I take a prescription antihistamine and still can't go outside in spring time without suffering badly. I would be very annoyed with anyone who did that to my child with the same issues. It's deliberate harm, they knew what they were doing and they harmed the child anyway. They aren't safe, it won't cause permanent harm (hopefully) but deliberately causing any harm is bad.

He died

I understand - however, they're obviously very good at making themselves look as saintly beings to get an order for contact in the first place and it would absolutely be jumped on as 'proof' you're insane/unreasonable/making this all up.

You need medical evidence, you need both children prepared to say that they do not want to see them, you need to go to court not as a person in breach of the order but as the parent respecting her children's wishes in doing so.

@NeverDropYourMooncup Understood. Thank you. We are seeing the hospital next week. I am going to ask them if they advise keeping him away from areas with a high density of grass and trees or if it’s ok to take an antihistamine and go.

@NeverDropYourMooncup I do think that this is something they should have asked me though rather than vaguely say they are going outside and there will probably be grass there.

You are just as bad as them bad mouthing as you put it by showing them the email to read. That's naturally going to alter their approach and attitude to their grandparents which in my view, is your aim as your clearly don't agree with them having any relationship with their late fathers parents. The courts at the time of putting in the order believe differently.

This allergy - is it confirmed and documented in his medical notes after being fully investigated or is it just based on opinion from the one incident you've mentioned? How does your child go out on day to day things where grass etc is inevitable? Has he been given any medication for any potential reaction and if so, does this go with the grandparents during contact?

I wouldn't be stopping contact no. I think you all as adults need to stop the tit for tat and bickering and instead put the children first in having a relationship with their family - maternal and paternal - without being witness or put between the conflict.

A message to the grandparents to advise how you're currently managing child's allergy and concerns you have about it are very real and you ask they try and respect any provisions in place to manage a reaction. Of course, this isn't always viable with a grass allergy so if anything was to occur in their care then they need to administer X meds and go to Y for medical treatment. Don't okay the he said she said game.

@hereistopositiveenergy so let me understand this. You think me trying to find out the truth of what happened by showing my 13 year old what they have said happened is me bad mouthing them? And why shouldn’t they alter their approach to their grandparents if they are deliberately lying to protect themselves? They aren’t putting the children’swt interests first here are they and the children need to know this.

He is being seen at our local hospital and has been for at least a year and we have as yet no official diagnosis other than grass, tree, dog, mould and some other allergies. I think the only think he wasn’t allergic to was cats. Do you think that taking him directly to a place that exposes him to his allergies is responsible? Reading the comments here from other allergy sufferers it’s not.

This. It took me and my asthma nurse nearly a year to figure out the correct combination of tablets and inhalers to be able to get back to walking. No way I would be daft enough to deliberately expose myself to larger levels of pollen until that was done. People hugely misunderstand asthma if it’s a bit more complicated than just take an anti histamine and a reliever.

At 12 and 13 the courts wouldn’t make the dc see their father if they didn’t want to. I doubt they would make them see their GP. I’m not sure if you would need to go back to court to sort it out though.