School attendance

[YorkshireGirl2016]

Hello, hoping that this is the right place to post.
To give a bit of background, my husbands child lives around 2 hours away. We see him as much as possible, but being a 13 year old, he wants to spend most weekends with his friends...we completely understand this.

Previously we received a letter about his poor attendance and my husband and child's mother received a £60 fine due to lack of attendance. We called the school and council and explained the situation, we live two hours away, both work full time and have our own children. Their reply was it's Dads responsibility still...even though he lives two hours away.

We have just received a letter threatening 3 months prison and or a £2,500 fine as my stepson again has refused to attend school.

I am beside myself with worry. Surely we cannot responsible as we live so far away? We have spoken to my stepson and he will not attend school. He doesn't care if there is a fine or his parents go to prison.

I don't know what to do? I'm terrified about not only his lack of education but the possibility of my husband going to prison

The steps are all here. It cost £232 which can be reduced based on your income.

www.gov.uk/looking-after-children-divorce/apply-for-court-order

You can do this without a solicitor. It will also show the local authority that your husband is taking serious steps to assist the other parent who can't or won't parent the child .

There will be a reason the child isn't attending school. Year seven is often the time the wheels come off for undiagnosed ND young people. I would go private and have an neurodevelpmental assessment and apply for an EHC needs assessment. It may be that he can't cope with the school environment and needs an alternative. Forcing him in in that instance causes trauma that will be difficult to recover from. As above Facebook page Not Fine in School and IPSEA and SOSSEN are good places for information and support.

One question about dad that is a bit confusing. In your opening post you said your husband works full time.

In another you say that he looks after the baby full time. Do you do a sort of split where he works when you are back home or was one of those posts wrong . ? Or perhaps I have read it wrong ?

Thank you to the last posters. Dad and I work full time but we've just had a baby. Dad is in a position to be a SAHD so therefore taken a career break until the baby is one and put him nursery

“Turn the internet off” is always advice from people who have never been in this situation. There will be a reason he is not attending. ND children use screens to regulate themselves and insurpringly often become abusive and violent when that is taken away.

it also doesn’t work. Neither does bribery (gym membership etc). I could offer my daughter anything in the world and she still wouldn’t be able to go to school. She might start going for a bit, but the environment is unchanged so it would be impossible again. Except this time she’s feel even more of a failure and what do you do with the reward? If she’s tried her very best and still can’t do it.

What MH services have been involved? Unlikely to be camhs as they have massive waiting lists and usually require a suicide attempt. Just because some people say there is no reason, there is. Children do well when they can.

Thank you. On the waiting list for camps. Ss involved though and spoken to someone there who us a MH professional. He's missed so much school that he's now in a rut and doesn't know how to get out if it.
I'm going to call school tomorrow and ask for extra catch up work over the summer, speak to mum about a court order (and school). I know that a lot have opinions on his Dad, but his Dad doesn't want to take him away from his Mum. He believes a child needs to be with their mother but this now out of our hands. We need to perhaps force things which will make people unhappy in the short term for a long term benefit. Dad also more than capable of homeschooling he just didn't want to take child away from Mum. (Previous issues of husband being in care when young and taking away from his mother brings negative thoughts)

Forcing isn’t the way forward. It will likely cause more trauma. Please research Emotional Behavioural school avoidance. Just because a SS have had a brief chat didn’t mean there isn’t something there. If the other child is attending, then it’s unlikely a parenting issue. My older child attends school no problem.

please look at Not Fine in School group. So much expertise there.

Thank you. Just looking now

OP, firstly take a deep breath. I really doubt your dh is going to prison. My dd has very low school attendance (under 10% over last two years) and I am constantly threatened with sanctions but so far no action. I think that is because they know I can produce evidence of the huge amount of work I have put in to solving this, and the absolute stonewalling I have had from statutory services at every turn. So many kids are refusing school at the moment, and I bet those parents getting fined are those who are doing nothing to help, not those who are.

So it's really important your dh does everything he can to help, and documents everything. How often is he meeting the school? The Education Welfare Officer? Has he offered to organise/fund home learning? Even if he knows he's on a hiding to nothing, it's really important that he can show evidence that he has in good faith done everything he can.

Finally, piss off to all judgy posters. You have no idea...

What does DS like doing? This is often to way in with DC who can’t engage. For example, if DS likes gaming look at MindJam, if he likes animals look at animal assisted therapy or care farm, if he likes sport look at a sports AP.

DH or DSS’s mum needs to request an EHCNA. An EHCNA can include assessments by a psychiatrist &/or clinical psychologist without the need to sit on the normal waiting lists. And, an EHCP can include ongoing support.

Thank you to the last two posters. The school does not keep in contact at all with my husband, so we thought everything was OK. Mother and son lie about school attendance. When we have known of issues we have gone to school spoken about issues. Etc I'll look into the extra assessments

DH needs to be more proactive. He could contact school himself rather than waiting to be contacted.

IMHO I think your husband still needs to make an application to the court. For reasons that will hopefully be in the interests of all parties.

In the situation you have described a Judge will almost certainly order a Section 7 report to be undertaken by CAFCASS.

https://adcs.org.uk/assets/documentation/Section7TemplateeResourcePackkweb.pdf

This will give you an indication of the depth it will go into and include the thoughts and wishes of the child.

It will be in your husbands and his ex interest as it will plainly lay out the problem. I cannot see any local authority prosecuting when the facts as you have described them are corroborated by an independent report of the court.

It is also time bound whereas waiting waiting for CAMHS will probably take years. It's massively over subscribed, underfunded and understaffed.

Get the application in . It will show the LEA you are taking concrete steps to resolve this.

Your husband needs to grow a backbone and stop hoping this is going to get resolved by changing nothing - just because mother and child want it. As for him being in care - he needs to get a grip. His child is not going into care - he is applying for his parent to care for him !!

The potential MH issues are not the immediate issue here. The threat of massive fines and prison are the things that need to be dealt with now. MH assessments can take years and this child needs to be back in school while he has a chance of salvaging some education.

There is also the possibility that there are no MH issues (I know this is an anathema on MN for difficult children) but sometimes they are just very badly behaved because they have been allowed to be so. An assessment is definitely required so those steps need to be put in motion but for now the court order needs doing ASAP.. you can do it online in most areas.

I’m unclear is the second letter because you didn’t pay the first fine or you paid and then received it?
i think there’s measures you can take prior to looking at court:
does dad have PR? If so school should have contacted him and he needs to complain. Has he spoken to school at any point?
find the cause. A child with lots of friends doesn’t decide not to go to school if their friends are going. Something is wrong. If on CAMHS waitlist could you look for private MH input? Or mentoring?
what have the school done in terms of rerrrals? Has dad been contacted?
has dad spoken to social services?
could dad spend 2 or 3 weeks closer to son helping and sorting out, assisting getting to school?
could dad investigate all other options?

I think it is equally as difficult for parents as it is the children tbh. If sibling goes to school then their dm is obviously organised and proactive enough to get them up and ready for school and that should be recognised. She may be lying to protect her son if she thinks his df will give him a hard time. I know dd's df (exh) didn't really understand why dd wasn't going to school or why I wasn't forcing her or punishing her for her for it either
My dd didn't go to school for two years and to this day she hasn't been able to articulate why she couldn't go. I can guess based on the school she went to after the two years out of school but dd wouldn't be able to identify the reasons why.
I had no fines or even threats tbh, I kept the school informed sought support for dd from CAMHS and pursued the EHCP to Tribunal to get the school she was able to attend.

I do think it’s significant that you don’t think your husband should be responsible because he lives 2 hours away…

Thank you. Dss has no respect for mum or dad to be honest. But I will look into all of these things mentioned

@YorkshireGirl2016 is your hubby engaged with the school ie can he show the LEA that he's doing what he can. The FB group mentioned upthread sounds like a starting point to access professional advice.

I cannot believe how judgemental and out of touch with reality some people on here are.

One a relationship ends people go their separate ways. Work might take the NC parent, nearly always the father, a couple of hours up the road. Mum in the week and Dad at weekends etc is by far the most common arrangement you hear when advising folks who have gone their own ways.

I'm not sure seeking an order for son to live with you will solve anything. He may still refuse and then hate you/your DH for ever more as, from his PoV, you ruined his childhood.

Neither is coercion like cutting off the internet EVER going to work. Any reward/punishment scheme would have to be part of something bigger that wraps around the entirety of his problems. And even then it might not do much!!

Thank you Brompt. But if I don't but in thus court order, my ss isn't going to school. He won't unless he's here, we'll I don't think anyway

Can you imagine how difficult it is going to be for him removing him from his dm, and his friends and the area he lives? Do you really think that he is just going to leave everything behind and go to a different school in a different area because your dh tells him he must? More likely that he makes your home life hell and absconds from school at every opportunity and makes his way back home to his dm in whatever risky way he chooses. Input needs putting in where he lives, from CAMHS, Young Minds, Barnardos, Action for Children and any other youth services in the area, not uprooting him and thinking that will sort it because it won't

That's exactly my point. We didn't want to do that...haven't you read my worries???????

And whilst we are on the waiting list. He doesn't attend school and his Dad and Mum are being threatened with fines and prison. Don't you see about the absolute impossible situation we are in,????????

You do realise school may not be able to discuss it with you as you do not have pr, only dh and ex have. Is the Inclusion officer involved?

I think the point is that if the Resident Parent is demonstrating themselves to be not capable of getting the child to attend education, or doesn't care enough to try, then the appropriate thing for the currently Non-resident parent to do is to go to court to gain Resident Parent status and take responsibility for getting the child into education. If they don't do this then they are condoning the non-attendance and are just as liable.

How do you think the parent of a 13yo can get a child to school if they don't want to go? How do you know the other parent doesn't care? She may be out of her mind with worry from what she is seeing and hearing whilst her child is school refusing? How do you think a school can keep a child in school if he doesn't want to be there? He could easily be home again before the register is taken. It's not as simple as he has to go and his df will make him.
There is a reason he isn't going, to alter that you find out the reason and put in the support to enable him to have an education. That might mean he never attends the school and has an alternative provision in place instead.