Is this normal behaviour for a law firm / solicitor?

[merr1goround]

Please bear with me on this.

I want to know how bad / totally normal, I might look to others!

A few years ago I retained a solicitor to help with a neighbour dispute. He was very verbose, really not concise, gave advice that I found tricky to follow and make a decision with, but I felt he was very knowledgeable (at least more than I!) After about a year of me feeling that he was being very balanced and the other side being quite aggressive I began to feel frustrated. He then wanted to take two actions that I disagreed with. The first I told him not to - he then did it after telling me he wouldn't (and this led to the other side making more requests that he had to deal with that I didn't want - like what came next), and the second I told him I didn't agree to part of the other side's request, he argued with me about this for a few days over email and then eventually told them I agree to their request, when I insisted repeatedly that I did not.

I then told him I no longer wanted him to represent me and I went on alone (to good outcome).

So, he then gave me a bill of £10k. When I took him on he said it would be about £3k if we didn't go to court. I should say that on three occasions I emailed him to ask for an update on fees and he never did - only once he responded and then he fudged his response, and was very vague. When I received the £10k bill, I asked him for his time log and he sent it saying it was estimated because he didn't keep logs.

I said I'm not paying it. His firm then took me to court. Of course, lots of what he charged me for was the work I specifically asked him not to do and the fall out from it.

I then made a complaint to his firm. His Managing Partner came back and said he had done nothing wrong as a solicitor has a duty to act in their client's best interests. I've looked at the SRA website and I can see that there are issues here with his honestly, integrity, the bill being a surprise to me etc.

Additionally, he personally came to my house to deliver the bundle to me (this is a city of London firm with more than 100 partners, by the way! and I live around 20 miles away from both his office and his home). I answered the door disheveled as I'd just taken my baby off my breasts from feeding to answer the door. It was very intimidating and aggressive. The solicitor then emailed me to follow up and in the email he wrote that my house disappointed him!

The law firm sent another partner to meet me. I met with them. They proposed a settlement - not me - that I drop my complaints and the firm will drop the claim against me. The partner said the solicitor had found it challenging with those complaints hanging over his head. I agreed, I just wanted this solicitor to be out of my life. Yuk, just yuk, all of this. The partner emailed the same day saying the solicitor agreed and I'd soon receive a draft settlement agreement. One month later that same partner who met me emails saying 'sorry, the solicitor doesn't agree and he'll se you in court unless you pay us'. I am not kidding or fibbing with any of this.

I complained to the SRA and Legal Ombudsman. It felt like something very strange and wrong and weird was going on.

Once again I also complained to his firm that this was intimidating, strange, aggressive and harassing behaviour. The MP said he'd investigate and come back to me. Three months after I heard nothing. All this time Im worried this solicitor is just going to turn up in my neck of the woods again. I emailed the MP twice for an update after 3 months - nothing. I emailed the other Managing Partner - nothing. I eventually put a comment on google saying I'd heard nothing. The MP I originally complained to came back to me and said they dealt with my first complaint and would not entertain another. In addition, they told me I had been harassing them (!) and they would take this forward if I post any more google reviews.

I have complained to the SRA and Legal Ombudsman and I am defending myself in court next year over the fees.

Im wondering whether I'm going to go to court and the judge will just say 'meh, pay the money and shut up'. I'ma professional person, I would never behave that way in my job (or anywhere, but you know, certainly not in my job!). NO way would I mention a ball park fee to a client, go over that by 2 or 3 times, not respond to them when they ask what the current fees are, and then say I'd estimated the fees and I'm taking them to court now. I wouldn't visit their house, I wouldn't then send an email commenting on this house negatively, I wouldn't propose a settlement then withdraw from it, I wouldn't repeatedly do exactly what they asked me to do and then charge them for it! Can a lawyer please just tell me is this normal behaviour for a law firm?

I swear completely this is truly my experience with a supposedly decent-ish city law firm, like I say, with more than 100 partners.

I wouldn't repeatedly do exactly what they asked me NOT to do and then charge them for it!

It will come down to whether or not you can prove your instructions and the associated work required to carry out those instructions. You can apply for costs can be sent to taxation (which is a detailed analysis of what reasonable costs should have been incurred).

Sounds like this man is an unhinged bully who is trying to intimidate you.

Did he give you anything in writing regarding costs?

No, it's not normal behaviour. Do you have all the email exchanges you describe saved?

This sounds incredibly weird and, as they were originally offering to settle, I'd say that the firm agrees.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest going through the solicitors' code of conduct and documenting all the points that your solicitor did not follow.

I am in Ireland so maybe it could be different but we have a law that states a solicitor has to outline fees before you agree to work with them. I actually had law fees squshed some years ago as the firm had not done this and I did not have to pay anything. I think it was called section 150 or something. I assume there is a similar thing in the UK?

Keep on with the SRA and the Ombudsman... it takes time, but if your story is provable, I'm pretty sure that you will win your case.
The first thing you need to do is prepare a bulleted or numbered statement of all the things that were problematic. Date each event, if you have emails to support, print them out and give them a number, eg. 24/06/2021/001
Keep to the facts only.
Send it to the firm/manager and tell them that you only wish to be contacted either by letter or email. Do not speak to them.
Believe me - the firm do not want this to go to court, they are trying to shake you down.
The whole thing is absolutely outrageous.

I'm in my 50's and have worked in law all my adult life. That's not normal.

A solicitor should only act on your instructions. They should have detailed attendance notes on file, confirming those instructions. I'd ask for a copy of your file.

They also can't just estimate the fee. Again, they should have a detailed time log of all work done.

What is the response from the SRA?

Did your letter of engagement set out estimated fees and what will happen as they reach towards that amount?

Ok, so, on fees - the solicitor sent me an email stating that he thinks it will be a few thousand pounds maximum, unless it gets complicated / goes to court. I responded on email that I'm ok with £3k. This was actually part of a letter fo engagement, the cover letter in a sense.

The SRA / Legal Ombudsman. The rub is that they cannot do anything as the firm is taking me to court. They cant to work on something that will be part of a hearing. Which is incredibly annoying because as a litigator with maybe 30 years experience, he has all the experience of how to argue cases and win them. I have never had a day's legal training in my life. While I have faith in judges, they also just need to work with what they are presented with. I feel like I'd have more chance with those organisations AND if I'm to be honest, I want this on the solicitor's records. All that coming to my house was just incredibly unsettling. I fond myself checking through the windows etc for a while afterwards. All that glaring at me and stern talk 'Are you XX (my name)' shoving me the bundle, staring at me. I just closed the door. Weird. get a courier, law firms do that tens of times a day probably. So all a solicitor needs to do is something bring a case and a potential complainant cannot do anything though the LO or SRA. I did receive an email from t he LO last week saying 'if you really want unto look at this, ask for a stay......'. Now I have to work out how to do that. I really want SRA or LO to say 'this was wrong'. Then maybe that will carry some weight at court.

Part of me thinks I should just get the money together, but I've actually paid what I said was my budget (£3k), and finding the rest of the money is beyond me right now.

And I actually think they will go to court. The hearing was at the end of June. It was postponed because of my own illness, but until 2 days before the firm were still going to attend.

They have also accused me of defamation because of my google review. I was very careful I stated three times this was my opinion, I honestly believed it, and I only mentioned what was documented in emails, and not in any real detail.

It's a lot of intimidation and crazy behaviour.

Im old others on here think it is strange. Maybe the judge will and maybe the SRA and LO will, too.

I have gone through the SRA pages and I have highlighted which principles / regulations I think might have been breached.

I'm glad others on here think it is strange.

It will come down to whether or not you can prove your instructions and the associated work required to carry out those instructions.

I mean, I know everything can be argued. But my email literally says 'Please stop. I've asked you many times. I do not want you to say 'x' to the other side.'

Then he emails me 'Ok, Merr1, I won't do it'.

Then the next day he writes to them 'Dear Other Side, I have spoken to my client and I suggest (thing that he agreed he would not do).

Then the second time is similar: 'No, just no. I don't want 'x'. I have asked you many time before and now I am losing faith that you are fully considering me. Please do not do 'x'.

Nothing from solicitor. 3 or 4 days later 'Dear Other Side, My client has agreed to your request' of 'x'.

When I read that last email I literally took my laptop off my lap and lay on the floor because I felt so powerless and so angry I wanted to scream and thrown something at the wall. I felt it best to lie on the cold hard tiles. It calmed me!

That's when I sacked him, as it were - or asked him to no longer represent me.

Then of course I receive his bill based on 'estimates' where several thousand are related to those emails and work he did following on from the agreements he made that I didn't want. Why the hell am I paying for that?

sorry that's @AmandaHoldensLips

It sounds really off and weird and you’re right to take it further. I’d ask to get this thread taken down though, as the firm sound vindictive and nuts enough to try use it against you (for putting it on a public forum). Even though you are absolutely entitled to post I’m not sure it should stay online. Maybe I’m totally wrong (not in the legal world ) and I’m sure others on here will know whether I’m being overly cautious. I hope your case is successful. The solicitor sounds utterly unprofessional at best,

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I agree, I think at least someone in the firm also just wants to get rid of me and shut me up, and that is why they sent a partner to some and meet me.

That partner then proposed the settlement and emailed me later to follow up saying the solicitor agreed, and I should expect a draft agreement. On month later, that partner emails me to say in fact the solicitor does not agree and on top of that the partner said ' the solicitor thinks the following:' and then there is a paragraph clearly written by the solicitor saying 'you have besmirched my reputation by claiming I am dishonest, etc etc, I think the judge will award costs to me because you have been unreasonable'. Im just thinking /me? unreasonable?

The solicitor I have a dispute with is a partner, by the way. Not sure I mentioned that. I do wonder whether there is a power struggle somewhere in that firm. I think his behaviour has been shameful and embarrassing. The partner who came to meet me said he's seen as a bit strange amongst colleagues, to put it lightly. I don't want to write exactly what she said.

I think this sounds nuts! Totally bizarre, the fact the firm wanted to settle makes me think you have a good case.
Stay strong and stick to your guns.

I f you do have to go to court I would have copies of all emails in a folder with dates (coloured tabs or something) highlight the bits that prove he went against your advice etc.

Have I said anything identifying?

If people think I have, then I certainly will take this down. I don't need more problems.

But also, my goodness, I just can't say anything?!

@merr1goround you should aslo make sure you have the name of the solicitor that came to your house and said he is seen as strange. She may have to go to court as a witness?

Surely when that comes to light they will want to settle.

The solicitor I originally retained is the one who came to my house.

I met the other partner elsewhere.

I'm wondering should I ask to take this down now? I don't want more problems, even if their arguments are baseless.

I would have this thread taken down, just to be on the safe side. Especially as the person you are dealing with seems aggressive and unhinged.

You have had some good advice and also confirmation that the solicitor's behaviour is not at all normal.

Good luck!

There is no reason for you to take your post down as you have not said anything that can identify or defame your solicitor or his firm. Some advice you are being given on MN is scaremongering, plain and simple. It is clear from your account that the law firm were prepared to settle on the terms they agreed with you and they are now being embarrassed by his refusal to cooperate. But no matter how strong a case he might feel he has, neither he or his firm will want to go to court. At the moment they are strong-arming you, and I predict that a day or so before the court date (if not on the steps of the court on the actual day), they will offer you a settlement, knowing you are then most likely to agree. But what they will demand from you is a withdrawal of allegations, withdrawal of the SRA complaints and any other oustanding matters, and withdrawal of any statement you have made impugning his and their reputastion. What you will then have to decide is what you want out of it: to show up his alleged misconduct in court in the hope the judge will throw out the case? Or just for both sides to agree to disagree and the whole matter to go away. My advice to you is to settle on the previously agreed terms. Not worth the stress to go into court if you don't have to.

Thank you @Micksdottir

Please tell me why they would not want to go to court? I'm struggling to understand their motivations in all of this.

I received a response from the SRA. They are taking no further action. I am sharing what they have said here as some people above suggested I go to the SRA with my concerns.

They did not mention that he acted against my instructions. I don't know why they didn't look at this.

• About delivering the bundle to my house. There is no evidence that he acted inappropriately while there, so that won't go any further.
• About commenting on my house. He has said it was not intended to cause offence, it was just an observation based on fact (this house is a Victorian terrace, the other a Georgian terrace (grade 2 listed)).
• They said I agreed to pay the bill in full on two occasions and so the firm agreed to withdraw the debt claim in relation to this. This simply did not happen. It's confusing, perhaps the law firm lied to the SRA? In any case the firm can withdraw any offer they make until written in contract.
• About claiming I defamed them - the firm felt my comments were intended to diminish their reputation, so that's that. They can write letters to me stating I have defamed them.

My response to this. Taken separately, this might just look like a solicitor acting in a robust and stern way. This is the SRA's approach in my opinion. Taken together, the solicitor is clearly acting way out of line.

Defamation - the solicitor is aware he ignored my instruction twice. Given this is what I wrote on the google review, it cannot be defamation. It's just fact. So claiming I am defaming them is unethical (significantly, I think, the actual solicitor I believe is problematic didn't ever accuse me of defamation (I guess because he knows it isn't), his managing partner did).

I did not agree to pay the bill in full twice while the debt claim was ongoing.

The comment on my home is not fact, it's opinion. The sharing of it is the issue. I was once driving in London and a man driving behind me did not think I was driving fast enough. He wanted to exceed the speed limit. I pulled over. As I did he shouted out to me 'you ugly stinking woman'. Perhaps someone else would agree with that. I certainly am a woman, I was in my 30s, so perhaps that's old to some, and I was wearing a body spray. But is it acceptable behaviour even if that was the driver's honest held opinion? No. I feel the same about a solicitor writing to me to give me his opinion on my home that he visited uninvited.

The firm did not need to chase me for a meeting, which I then reluctantly agreed, then send a partner to have a two hour meeting with me, then write to me confirming the settlement, to then write again with a pithy little take down paragraph from the problematic solicitor , especially after he had visited me at my home and I had asked the firm to ensure he did not try to contact me again personally as I found his behaviours creepy. the problematic solicitor knew I didn't want to receive communication from him again, but he just had to!

In my opinion taken together this man is a scary weird person and is not acting in the way that a solicitor should.

My take away? No point in complaining to the SRA as a lay person. The law firm will just advocate well for themselves, as is their training and career, perhaps provide an account that is a little confusing so that the SRA make mistakes in their understanding, and just get away with whatever they are doing.

I would honestly avoid going to a solicitor for any help on any matter now though I think there are things I could have done differently. The first is obviously doing it myself from the beginning. But otherwise, I could have asked on many more occasions what the current bill was and insisted until I got an answer. Two or three times was not enough, though it should have been. I also could have fired the solicitor the first time he went against my instructions and did exactly what he agreed to me he would not do. But hindsight is 20/20.

Sorry one last thing.

The last matter was that I said the firm lied in the particulars to court as they said in the form that I refused to pay the bill (or any of it). I said this was not true and I believed it could have the effect of giving the court the impression I refused to pay any of the bill - I believe a judge would like to see I was not unyielding. In fact I did say I would pay some of it (about a third) and I sent the SRA the emails which state this. these maps were sent long before the law firm sent any particulars to court. The SRA says that as I had not paid any of the bill by time the debt claim was issued, the firm did not lie on the court form. I'm confused. The court form says I refused to pay the bill (or any of it). I clearly did offer to pay some of the bill. God knows.

Again, the SRA decision and working make little sense to me. I won't go back to them with these questions. I won't get anywhere.

It all sounds very odd but some of what you present from your side also sounds odd. Why does it matter what comment he made about your home? Why does it matter that he dropped a bundle of documents off in person? (given what some courier firms can be like, if he was passing it could actually make more sense)/

Surely you would be better focussing on what really matters i.e. he ignored the instructions you gave him and did the opposite? All this other stuff just seems like noise and detracts from a solid argument of your solicitor ignoring your instructions.

Hi @HundredMilesAnHour , you might have read the thread at 100 miles an hour!

I did emphasise the behaviours you point to. The SRA did not bite. Not in the public interest. Not updating on fees is the other big one. That I need to go to the Legal Ombudsman for.

He lives more than 20 miles from me. He works more than 20 miles from me. He went out of his way quite simply.

His comment about my home matters because it is just one of many intimidatory tactics in my opinion. But perhaps professionals often make demeaning personal comments to (ex-)clients whom they are in dispute with after door stopping them and sneering?

I agree the rest is noise. Importantly it is not me making the noise.

Thanks for your comments. It is always good to have a different opinion.

You know, he just gives me what people nowadays call 'The Ick'.