Separating with a child caught in the middle

[Azaryan]

Hi, I'm hoping someone has been through the same and can guide me as I'm drowning in stress.

For what are probably irrelevant reasons to the courts (he cheated on me), my partner of many years left home, leaving myself and our 7 year old behind. My son will be able to vouch that despite his wrong doing, my partner was asked to stay on multiple occasions, which he firmly turned down.

Fast forward to today, my son is coping amazingly and leads a stable life. His dad walking out has barely left a dent as every other aspect of his life remains unchanged. He has a secure roof over his head, a parent who continues to single handedly provide for him as I have done from day one and a stable routine that includes a school he loves.

His father is now demanding 50% of access. He doesn't have a home as he currently couch surfs, doesn't have a stable job and his own family live 250 miles away, so an unrealistic distance for a 7 year old to travel back and forth as if he's a yoyo.

Moreover, my son is only 7, and I am not prepared to miss out on 5.5 years of his upbringing and childhood over the next 11 years, because his entitled father through his selfish needs wants to destroy his stability, feeling he is owed 50% child.

I will categorically not agree to such a drastic change to his routine, because he isn't a toy to be continuously passed back and forth for the remainder of his childhood and although he is both our child, the fact he walked out and left him with me to begin with speaks volumes. I personally cannot see his father agreeing to anything else either out of spite and principle, so I am wondering how and if mediation would work for us if we are both unwilling to compromise? What are our options? Am I being unreasonable?

I feel like I'm losing my baby through no fault of my own and I'm heartbroken. I'm also worried that one day he will just take him to Sussex (we live in the Midlands) and refuse to give him back. What can I do to stop this?

Many thanks in advance.

There is nothing you need to do.

He has said what he wants. You don't agree. It's therefore not going to happen unless you change your mind or he applies to court for an order.

If he has no fixed home address then he's delusional wanting equal shared care.

Agree. Time and enough to worry if he still wants 50:50 when he has somewhere to live with space for your DS. I suspect the Courts won't be interested in who left who, but they might be concerned about whether he has kept in touch with your DS.

At the moment he asks if he can pick up our son from school here and there and I say yes to be reasonable. But with the summer holidays coming, he wants to take him to his parent's house across the country, which is where he intends to stay for that period. Can I say no? I'm worried he'll take him and keep me in the unknown or even worse not return him. The fears aside, I'm just not happy for my baby to be so far away without me.

I'm wondering if I should get in there first and apply for sole physical custody so I don't have to sleep with one eye open.

I think you should get legal advice. I don’t think there’s any risk he will get to have him without an actual home, and you can argue that it’s not in your child’s best interest to go far away to stay with family he barely knows with a father who has been largely absent. Sadly the fact that you will miss your son is less important. But a solicitor will help you with a strategy and what you can/can’t so.

My son will be able to vouch that despite his wrong doing, my partner was asked to stay on multiple occasions,

Please tell me you didn’t/ don’t have these conversations in front of your child? That would be massively inappropriate.

I have a feeling you would not get it. As he’s not physically harmed Dc I think he will get to see him. It’s how often and how it’s organised. He is the father and therefore he can see his son. However I would sit tight. Mediation might work but you cannot say no to everything. He’s also being unreasonable. Clearly. So both of you need a sensible resolution so your DS has two parents that see him. Without recrimination and upset. Also do not turn DS against his dad. Courts sniff this out immediately. As they also sniff out unreasonable men who withhold money. So it’s best to try and reach a workable arrangement.

Thinking in terms of a young child "vouching" for the fact his mother repeatedly asked his father not to leave is all kinds of wrong.

You need a solicitor.

Sorry posted too soon.

i understand why you are angry and upset. But even though your husband has behaved very badly towards you, that won’t matter if you go to court over your son.

It doesn’t matter if you asked him to stay or who was right or wrong ( I mean legally not morally of course ). All that matters is the best interests lf your child. So you need to frame all your objections around this. Eg

“ its not in DS best interests to stay overnight with his father, as he has no stable accommodation and is sleeping on a friends sofa”.

“ Ds is happy to see his father for the day on some weekends but he doesn’t want to stay overnight “.

Try not to worry too much about the 50:50 thing. It’s a common threat made by men who want to upset their ex and pay less child support. But they hardly ever go through with applying, let alone getting it. He would need secure housing and a proper plan for childcare / holidays when he’s at work. Most men CBA to do this.

The other thing is that a lot of then lose interest in 50:50 as soon as they have a new partner. My ex saw his kids about twice a week for a couple of hours soon afire he left. But then his Gf put her foot down and now he sees them for a couple of hours a few times a year.

Till you go to court you can say no but in these circumstances dad isn't a threat or abusive etc etc so I guess it's not the right thing to stand in the way. For me the courts said the ex wasn't allowed contact based on abuse, and the fact he lived 200+ miles away and thay was 13 yrs ago

Please tell me you're not going to ask your 7yo to 'vouch' for the fact that that you begged your cheating ex to not leave you both in front of your 7yo?

If ex gets stable home and applies for 50/50 (and follows through with it), then I can see no reason why he wouldn't get it unless you can prove abuse, instability, neglect towards DC.

Do you not know where ex's family live? Realistically, what are the chances of him disappearing with DC to his family? Is this something he's done before? Something he's threatened? If this happened, you phone the police of course.

but if he can't ge motivated to get himself a home, he's hardly likely to be motivated to kidnap DC, is he? Or see a court case through.

However, if he can't find a home locally and decides to move back to parents or parents' home town, he can still apply for contact and will probably be awarded it.

To those dwelling on the vouching comment, no, I don't need a 7 year old to vouch for me in court. But we all lived in the same house and naturally he heard some things and made some observations. He told my mum (whilst unprompted) that dad didn't want to stay and left because it was his choice. I have obviously told him that his dad loves him nonetheless irrespective of where he lives.

In answer to someone's question about how likely he is so take him to Sussex, as it stands, very likely because he doesn't have a stable home or job here. He does supply work at a school and for the summer holidays would be looking to go back down as he wouldn't have a means to live up here.

I've been reading that in reality 50/50 is not as common to award due to the great disruption it causes with the continuous travelling of back and forth and one parent usually gets sole physical custody with visitation rights for the other.

Since him moving out, I haven't hindered any contact so I'm not trying to be an obstacle in their relationship. Naturally however, I want to be secure in knowing he cannot just remove my child from his home and life. I have now contacted a solicitor and awaiting a reply.

I'm glad that you are getting a solicitor, you need proper advice. Fingers crossed for you.

I'm not sure if things have changed but 50 years ago I was the child in a similar situation. My mum had left and taken me with her ( I was 4) , so we lived with my grandparents a 3 hour drive away. I saw my dad every holiday. He went for custody when he remarried when I was 7.

The point is, at the time the courts were going to actually ask me where I wanted to live. Which obviously was going to be with my mum, so in the end my dad backed down.

As others have said, it is all about what is best for the child which definitely isn't sofa surfing with dad.

@Whenwillitallmakesense Dads don’t often get 50/50 in the circumstances described by the OP. This child will be going to school. He won’t be travelling to and from dad on a school morning/night if that is some distance from school. Especially as dad teaches (if that’s correct).

It’s also not likely to happen if dad doesn’t have a stable home. It’s definitely not wholly about what dad wants, it’s about what is best for the child. It’s better to get mediation to see what might be agreed. However 50/50 would be unusual in the circumstances and any decent barrister in court would argue for far less and make stability for Dc a priority.

I think you'll find I said if he got a stable home (meaning locally) there was a likelihood he'd get 50/50. Why wouldn't he? Are there no single mums who are teachers who manage to get their kids to school? Are there no male parent teachers who have 50/50 with their child?

I then went on to say if he decided to live by his parents, or anywhere at quite a distance away, he could still apply and get contact, not 50/50. He could get weekends and holiday contact if he applied for it, no? I'm pretty sure not all co-parents have to give up visitation rights if they decide not to live in same vicinity

I didn't mention 50/50 in any scenario where he didn't have his own home or he lived miles away, did I?.

I also commented that if he's not motivated to find himself a home, he may not be motivated kidnap child as the OP suggests she's worried about, and may not be motivated to start and see through a court case.

I'm also worried that one day he will just take him to Sussex (we live in the Midlands) and refuse to give him back

please read people's posts properly before becoming all high and mighty about how many ways I was wrong.

@Whenwillitallmakesense Becuse it’s fairly unusual. When working hours get in the way, and childcare, many parents agree on 5/14 nights. Even when they live quie close to each other. This is found to be the standard default position because it works. Easy enough to navigate. Child knows where he is and clubs/friendships can be maintained. Your post is ifs and buts. It’s not worth discussing 50/50 in these circumstances. Best to advise on the actual situation. Not a fictional one.

I wouldn't encourage a trip away until your ex got a Child Arrangement Order.
He can't have 50/50 because he doesn't live near enough to do the school run 50% of the time and no stable address. The most he could ask from a court is every other weekend and half school holidays presumably at his parents house. As there's been a long gap in contact you would be reasonable to suggest a slow increase to this amount until ds is considered old enough to decide how much he wanted.

He won't get an awful lot now, but if he gets stable accommodation the fact he cheated and you'll miss your DC isn't reason to deny him some time.
50/50 is unreasonable, but you need to get used to the idea that it could be something like 5/14 days which is fairly common.

Ultimately with everything else aside, it's his kid too.

I'd say no to talking your child away until he's built up overnight contact.

OP has fictionalised a kidnap scenario where DC gets taken to Sussex and never gets returned. I addressed that. Is that OK with you or is it just me who's not allowed to reply to this part of her post?

I think you'll find everyone is dealing with ifs and buts unless they're thinking he's going to carry on living on someone's sofa for the rest of his life. It's ridiculous to think his circumstances won't change sooner rather than later.

And suggesting he'd still get contacr if he moved to Sussex? Is that fiction too?

and who are you to absolutely rule out any 50/50 scenario. Dad might get a job and home round the corner and actually go through with applying to court for it. For all we know, he might literally have just moved out and just hadn't had time to get himself organised yet. It takes a while to get to mediation then to court - who's to say he's not settled down with his new squeeze by then, Employed, stable and ready, willing and able to accommodate 50/50. Is this fiction?

Are we all just to say there there OP, of course all of those things will never happen and you'll get to keep DC 24/7 until he's 18 all because your ex cheated and you don't think he deserves it?

Who am I? Have you read the other posts that agree with me? Who are any of us? @Whenwillitallmakesense At the moment it won’t be 50/50. It probably won’t be in the future. Whatever the OP is concerned about regarding kidnap is obviously not worth dwelling on unless dad is a total butter.

For what it’s worth. A family member is a family barrister. When settled parents look at the best way to manage work, the time they can dedicate to child commitments and the needs of the child, the frequently agreed ratio is 5/14. The fewer nights often with dad. There might be health/other issues with mum that affect ratios. A child is not the same as sharing out sweets.

@TizerorFizz so now you're making up imaginary health conditions but I can't speculate about any other than 5/14 because you know someone who's a family barrister? You are the holy grail, of course.

And don't suggest I'm trying to liken a child to sweets to be shared out. I was doing nothing of the sort. Please just keep your opinions and comments directed to OP, OK? I'm not interested in interacting with you anymore.

I haven't fictionalised anything, so kindly don't talk like you know my situation. Having been the main breadwinner for our entire relationship with my partner only doing intermittent supply work, he will have no financial means to buy or even rent here. His only guaranteed accommodation is in East Sussex, with his parents. Moreover, he said that he wanted to take my son there for the summer holidays as he doesn't have an income and can't live here, so excuse me if I have doubts that he may not be returned. Your attitude and superiority complex stink.

@Azaryan Are you talking to me? I thought I had been helpful. I was not suggesting you had health issues. I said if mums did, it affected who got what in terns of nights. So such a scenario might affect some people - not you.

Actually the other poster was asking me to stick to the facts and not 'fictionalise' stuff. I was only pointing out that this wasn't a fact because it hadn't actually happened, but something you'd brought up in your OP as a concern It wasn't a dig at uou or your situation in any way. In my original post I was actually trying to reassure you that this was unlikely to happen because if hasn't the motivation to get himself a home, he's unlikely to have motivation to see through a court case or try kidnap his child, specially if he had no means of supporting DC.

But hey, if you all want to jump on band wagon and make me the villain in all this just because everyone is reassuring you that he'll only get 5/14 and my opinion or comments aren't valid, then go ahead, fill your boots. But I was actually trying to advise - worst case scenario, maybe , but not outside the realms of possibility - that almost all courts start from the 50/50 perspective. I won't tell you on what i base this opinion as I'll only get shot down, told I don't have family members who are barristers, told I have a superiority complex and any other number of nasty comments so I'll just say, you need proper legal advice.
Take care and good luck