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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Separation of same sex couple and parental rights

97 replies

Acrobe · 10/05/2023 15:35

Hi, my 10 year relationship has just been finished by my partner. She is a birth mother to our daughter. We are not married nor we in a civil partnership. The "dad" sperm donor is known but not on a birth certificate...

Long story short I found myself not having any rights to my daughter. I have provided for the birth mother and our daughter since the beginning. 5 years! 3 of which the birth mother was out of work so I was literally paying for everything

I/we accumulated debts which are unfortunately in my name.

So not only I losing the most precious thing in my life -my daughter (cos I have no legal rights) but also ending up having to pay by my self what should be a shared debt.

Help! Please anyone.. money is a one thing but I can't bear thinking I will lose my child!

Thanks

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 10/05/2023 17:14

Anyway, you are where you are. Completely agree that you need a solicitor to see what rights having lived with and supported and parented your DD since birth gives you.

SheilaFentiman · 10/05/2023 17:15

Has your ex actually said that she is taking your DD away? Appreciate you want the paperwork sorted anyway, but she may well want an amicable solution to co parenting as well.

shammalammadingdong · 10/05/2023 17:15

RetiredEarly · 10/05/2023 17:13

And tbh, it doesn’t matter how the child was conceived and whether the OP’s ex had sex with a man or not.
Im not sure why so much interest in the OP’s ex sex life tbh.

It kinda matters. If you have sex with a man and get pregnant, you and he are the parents of that child. Not your girlfriend.

If you go to a clinic and use donor sperm and do the legal stuff, you and your girlfriend can absolutely be the parents of that child.

So yes, it does matter a lot how a child is concieved.

But in any case, OP is not the parent. And has no PR and very little chance of getting it.

SheilaFentiman · 10/05/2023 17:18

“But in any case, OP is not the parent. And has no PR and very little chance of getting it.”

@shammalammadingdong is that based on legal experience? I would hope the fact that OP has clearly been parenting the whole of her DD’s life may give her some chance, but best to take formal advice.

shammalammadingdong · 10/05/2023 17:20

Yes, it is.

Original poster
Acrobe · 10/05/2023 17:20

Can't get PR as need to be either married or in a civil partnership to do so . Been miss lead by the adoption company who seemed to believe that anyone can get PRs

OP posts:
NotAnotherBathBomb · 10/05/2023 17:20

RetiredEarly · 10/05/2023 17:13

And tbh, it doesn’t matter how the child was conceived and whether the OP’s ex had sex with a man or not.
Im not sure why so much interest in the OP’s ex sex life tbh.

Because Mumsnet isn't full of homophobia

Original poster
Acrobe · 10/05/2023 17:22

To my daughter I am mummy and my ex is mama...
It's the cutest mummy you could ever hear

OP posts:
MsWhitworth · 10/05/2023 17:23

No one here can help you. You need proper legal advice.

Enko · 10/05/2023 17:26

You need legal advice and fast.

Garethkeenansstapler · 10/05/2023 17:26

This is why these type of situations - donors, no paperwork, no genetic connection - stuff gets very messy and why generally people are very wary of it as an ethical and practical way of having a child.

You need to consult a solicitor, I don’t think anyone on here can give you any answers.

Original poster
Acrobe · 10/05/2023 17:27

Appreciate all your replies. Thank you

OP posts:
NotAnotherBathBomb · 10/05/2023 17:27

Garethkeenansstapler · 10/05/2023 17:26

This is why these type of situations - donors, no paperwork, no genetic connection - stuff gets very messy and why generally people are very wary of it as an ethical and practical way of having a child.

You need to consult a solicitor, I don’t think anyone on here can give you any answers.

'Gay people shouldn't have children'.

shammalammadingdong · 10/05/2023 17:28

That's a pretty shitty thing to say.

Xiaoxiong · 10/05/2023 17:32

I know of at least one case where a "step father" ie. A man not biologically related to his ex partner's kids, nor married to the mother of those kids, managed to get access rights on the basis that he had parented them for years before the relationship ended. That was because the court decided it was in the best interests of the children to continue to have a relationship with him.

I'd talk to a lawyer asap, and come at this from the consideration of what is best for the child involved. If you are mummy and have been since the child was born I would think you have a good argument

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 10/05/2023 17:33

Just as a matter of interest, I don’t see why OP could not have been on the birth cert as a parent if she had wanted to. I don’t think they ask about the method of conception at the registration, do they? It would seem quite intrusive.

Garethkeenansstapler · 10/05/2023 17:35

NotAnotherBathBomb · 10/05/2023 17:27

'Gay people shouldn't have children'.

Show quote history

Who said that? Plenty of straight people use donors and surrogates. My feelings are exactly the same for them as well. Conversely if 2 gay people (a male and female) decided to have a baby and co-parent together I would have zero judgement or disapproval whatsoever, my feelings about it would be exactly the same as a straight couple.

WooWooWinnie · 10/05/2023 17:36

I appreciate this isnt helpful to you now, but as the non-birth parent why did you not adopt your daughter at birth to make sure you’re legal co-parents? That’s what same sex couples we know have done.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 10/05/2023 17:37

Tbh I don’t think you have any grounds- for the want of a nicer term you will literally just be seen as the mothers partner, and law couldn’t allow anyone’s partner to have parental responsibility over a child that isn’t biologically theirs

WoolyMammoth55 · 10/05/2023 17:39

Hi OP, so sorry to hear that you're in a really rough situation. Please do speak to a lawyer ASAP. I think you might be able to get discounted help if you can find a law firm who are LGB friendly...?

If you can keep on reasonably amicable terms with your ex then I don't think this will be impossible: she should want what's best for your child and obviously keeping in touch is best for her.

I also found this:
How to obtain PR if you are not married to or in a civil partnership with the birth mother
If you have not married or entered a civil partnership with the birth mother, and you do not already have PR for the child then you can obtain it by applying to the family court for a child arrangements order stating that the child lives with you or with you and your partner. If the order says the child ‘lives with’ you then you automatically have PR for the child. Another option would be to adopt the child which would make you one of the child’s legal parents.
(https://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/lesbian-parenting-and-the-law/)

If you have proof that you've been residing together - council tax, bills in both your names, etc? - and proof that you've been financially supporting the family (bank statements etc) then I think you are reasonably likely to be awarded contact at the very least - but best to keep this amicable vs litigious if at all possible.

Wish you all the best.

Children and the law: a guide to lesbian parenting - Rights of Women

  Click here to download the PDF guide to Children and the law: a guide to lesbian parenting   What does it mean to be a legal parent?Who are the legal parents?What is parental responsibility (PR)?Birth motherIf you are the civil partner or wife of the...

https://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/lesbian-parenting-and-the-law

anotheropinion · 10/05/2023 17:39

Grandparents, in general, have no legal rights. BUT some have succeeded in obtaining legal access because they have been a major part of the child's life and hence it is in the best interests of the child to continue that.

I would hope you had a very strong case for a similar argument here. Seek legal advice.

NotAnotherBathBomb · 10/05/2023 17:53

Garethkeenansstapler · 10/05/2023 17:35

Who said that? Plenty of straight people use donors and surrogates. My feelings are exactly the same for them as well. Conversely if 2 gay people (a male and female) decided to have a baby and co-parent together I would have zero judgement or disapproval whatsoever, my feelings about it would be exactly the same as a straight couple.

Show quote history

Because using a donor is exclusive to being a gay couple (I'm focussing specifically on gay women here in regards to sperm donation, surrogacy is a separate issue). If 2 women are in a relationship and decide to have a child, is is the only way that it can be done. Therefore your view that it is unethical, which is casting a judgement on whether it should even be allowed to happen, is homophobic by virtue of the fact that it will always target 2 gay women in a relationship who want to have a child.

RedHelenB · 10/05/2023 17:58

It's the right of the child that's important You've been in this child's life since hirtb so they will be missing out not seeing you. Go to a solicitor ASAP.

Thewitcherswolf · 10/05/2023 18:12

NotAnotherBathBomb · 10/05/2023 17:27

'Gay people shouldn't have children'.

Show quote history

Or,
Gay and lesbian couples need to thoroughly iron out the legal situation when preparing to have a child, as each/the child will only be genetically related to one member of the couple, and the non bio parent is vulnerable to being cut off completely if the relationship breaks up.
That’s not the same thing as ´gay people shouldn’t have children’.
I’m sorry you’re going through this OP. Do you have any proof that you were going through the process of adopting your daughter? Or that you both intended for you to adopt her? I’d take that to a family lawyer and see what they say.

Thewitcherswolf · 10/05/2023 18:18

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 10/05/2023 17:33

Just as a matter of interest, I don’t see why OP could not have been on the birth cert as a parent if she had wanted to. I don’t think they ask about the method of conception at the registration, do they? It would seem quite intrusive.

Because you cannot create a baby without a father/sperm donor. Because they didn’t go through a clinic, the father/donor didn’t and couldn’t relinquish his parental responsibility - technically this child’s mama/OP’s ex could pursue him for child maintenance or he could demand to be put on the birth certificate. So OP couldn’t adopt her daughter because the daughter legally had two parents already, even if by not putting the father/donor on the birth certificate, both bio parents were trying to show that they wanted him to be a donor without parental responsibilities and not a father with parental responsibility. That’s just not how it works legally.