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Original poster

Boundary dispute

70 replies

VictoriaBlossom · 07/04/2023 14:52

I have a boundary dispute.
I bought my house in 2014
The house was built in 2007
Barratt the house builder put the fence in the wrong place, it has been in this position since the house was sold to owner 1. I am owner 2 of this house.

New management company came along in 2019, took ownership of public areas, which technically included my piece of "stolen" land.
This happened to my neighbour opposite also

Because 7 years have passed my solicitor has no interest in this, and Barratt have said they have no documents to do with the estate they built.

Management company now wants to charge me £2000 plus £1500 fees for me to pay for my own garden, I can't really put the fence back as A, it's so old it's rotten, and B I have a shed in the area.

If everyone has washed their hands, do I have no comeback?
House is mortgaged, and I cannot sell with a boundary dispute in place (I'm not looking to sell)

Feel as though I've been completely mugged off, bought the house at 24YO and it was my first house, solicitor said it's my responsibility to check the boundaries?

Just hoped someone could point me in the direction of where I could get help?
I feel like telling the management company to see me in court. Even the photos of the house for sale shows where the fence was so this really isn't my fault

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Foreversearch · 07/04/2023 16:51

@VictoriaBlossom I assume you have the Land Registry register and plan for your property. They show the legal extent of your property.

If you haven’t already done this I suggest you go back to Land Registry and obtain:

  • the full deeds for your property when it was newly built. This should be the Transfer document.
  • the register, plan and full deeds for the original plot of land.

Once you have these you should be able to show that since 2007 the boundaries are as per the current fences and that was the property transferred to the previous owner.

At this stage you then need legal advice.

Having re-read your post have they ripped down your fence? The state of the fence is irrelevant as it is the boundary not the fence that is in dispute.

Original poster
VictoriaBlossom · 07/04/2023 17:33

@Foreversearch yes the boundary marking on the deeds is in a different position to where the fence is positioned.
They have not touched my fence.
They want me to move my fence back or pay them the £2k

I don't even know what specialist in legal advice I need?

It's giving me sleepless nights now

OP posts:
NotDavidTennant · 07/04/2023 17:36

Do you mean some land that belongs to you is outside the fence or some land that doesn't belong to you is inside the fence?

Original poster
VictoriaBlossom · 07/04/2023 17:42

@NotDavidTennant
Land that does not belong to me is in my fence. But the fence was in that position when I purchased the house.

OP posts:
Original poster
VictoriaBlossom · 07/04/2023 17:43

@NotDavidTennant
And I have maintained it and treated it like my own garden as I didn't know it wasn't my garden

OP posts:
Foreversearch · 07/04/2023 17:56

@VictoriaBlossom you want a property or land and boundary law solicitor.

You could try your local CAB who may advise you and if your house insurance includes legal cover then phone them.

Pragmatically, If you are certain the Land Registry plan doesn’t follow the current fencing. My gut reaction is it’s going to cost you £ to move the fence, although I would argue if they want it moved they pay for it as the error was made by the previous owners of the land they own.

Compared to that £2k isn’t an unreasonable figure to own the extra land - I would try and negotiate them down. However, there would be legal fees on top to properly transfer the land into your name.

What you need to balance is the cost of fighting this vs sorting it out amicably and 100% knowing you legally own the whole property. I suspect if you approached your mortgage company they may be willing to give you a further advance to cover the cost as they don’t want a property they lend on to have a contested title.

PrincessofWellies · 07/04/2023 17:59

It's probably yours by adverse possession. Have a look at the Land Registry site. You need the adverse possession registered land bit. Don't do anything without further legal advice.

LIZS · 07/04/2023 18:04

If it was built in 2007 the builders plans should still be online on the council website. Might be worth comparing with LR.

Foreversearch · 07/04/2023 18:04

@VictoriaBlossom I also meant to say no to paying their fees, their mistake they didn’t check the boundaries when they purchased the property so they are responsible for resolving.

I agree with @PrincessofWellies you may be able to go for adverse possession but get legal advice. Honestly it will cost you more if you don’t get it now.

Ponderingwindow · 07/04/2023 18:11

Have they gotten a surveyor to prove the fence is in the wrong place or are they just making a claim?

EyesOnThePies · 07/04/2023 18:11

If the land has been fenced in and used and accessed only by the owner of your house since 2007, and no one in that time has demanded access or used it, and you have tended it and used it, then I would say you have a very strong case for claiming it under adverse possession.

prh47bridge · 07/04/2023 20:14

Consult a solicitor. As you and the previous owner of your property both believed the land was yours and have done so for about 16 years between you, you may have a claim for adverse possession.

mybeautifuloak · 07/04/2023 22:55

How much land are we talking about?

Era · 07/04/2023 23:01

I wish people would stop going on about bloody adverse possession on these threads. It isn’t really a thing anymore. All that happens if you assert a right to adverse possession of registered land is that the land registry contacts the owner of the land and says “Joe Bloggs is trying to claim your land, are you happy to let him have it?” Clearly nobody then says “oh yeah he can have my land”

so the owner says “err, no, it’s mine” and that’s that.

Era · 07/04/2023 23:10

Although if prh47bridge says otherwise then go with her advice.

Japanesejazz · 07/04/2023 23:22

To claim adverse possession of registered land you need at least 10 years of ownership
You don’t have this, if you could get an ST 1 from the previous owner confirming they were also in adverse possession of the land you could submit an application to land registry
The management company would be likely to object as they want the land back, but the decision would ultimately be made by a senior officer at land registry

friskybivalves · 07/04/2023 23:41

Era · 07/04/2023 23:10

Although if prh47bridge says otherwise then go with her advice.

The fabulous prh47bridge is a man, as I discovered myself when praising 'her' knowledge and skills, and generosity with both. It was a startling moment... Had to completely revise my mental image of her from Fiona Shaw.

mybeautifuloak · 08/04/2023 00:33

OP please answer, how much land? 1 m strip or your entire 60ft garden?

prh47bridge · 08/04/2023 07:27

Era · 07/04/2023 23:01

I wish people would stop going on about bloody adverse possession on these threads. It isn’t really a thing anymore. All that happens if you assert a right to adverse possession of registered land is that the land registry contacts the owner of the land and says “Joe Bloggs is trying to claim your land, are you happy to let him have it?” Clearly nobody then says “oh yeah he can have my land”

so the owner says “err, no, it’s mine” and that’s that.

In most cases you would be right but because the land in this case adjoins land OP owns, the rules are a little different. The management company cannot simply say "no, it's mine". They can only resist a claim for adverse possession if they can show that OP and the previous owner have not been in possession of the land for 10 years or that they did not reasonably believe the land was theirs - Land Registration Act 2002, Schedule 6 clause 5(4). So, on the information given, I think a claim for adverse possession is likely to succeed.

Era · 08/04/2023 07:39

or that they did not reasonably believe the land was theirs

so in the OPs case she did think the land was hers and ticked this box, but in most threads where the “squatter” is just being. cf and trying to steal land, adverse possession shouldn’t work with registered land.

Thats helpful, thank you. Decades since I’ve done any property law.

Original poster
VictoriaBlossom · 08/04/2023 08:03

@Foreversearch
It's 2k plus £1.5k fees. So 3.5k for a piece of my own garden. I don't mind paying for a solicitor but I just worry at what the cost per hour could escalate to. I have the money in my savings but basically when the house on the estate is out for sale, the management company assesses it and signs it off (after they have been paid £500 fee)
So the first management company had actually allowed the sale to go through and obviously didn't assess the house and boundary properly

OP posts:
Original poster
VictoriaBlossom · 08/04/2023 08:04

@LIZS I thought this was a great shout but I can't find anything on the planning portal. I can find the "joe bloggs wants a side extension" type but nothing to say Barratt want to build 100 homes

OP posts:
Original poster
VictoriaBlossom · 08/04/2023 08:09

@Ponderingwindow no they just said you have taken a bit of land and it's trespass.

I've quoted below the letter

We enclose a copy of your property title for your consideration, to demonstrate that your boundary fencing has actually encroached on our client's land, which is indeed an act of trespass. Please be reminded that trespass is a criminal offence. Should this trespass continue, our client seeks to obtain an injunction to remedy this act. An injunction is a Court Order that requires a party to do a specific act, in this case aligning your boundary fencing with your boundaries as per your official copy title documents.
Despite this however, our client is happy to come to an agreement with you regarding the encroachment on its land. Our client has suggested that they would be willing to sell the encroached land to you and asks that you make a reasonable offer of purchase for the land for them to consider. Please note that our client has stipulated that should you wish to purchase the land they would expect you to cover all of the legal costs incurred in transferring this land to you as well as the costs incurred in instructing us to send you this formal demand letter.

This was letter 1. I went back and said £0 for the garden and I'll pay the legal fee.

They countered and said £2k plus £1500 fee

OP posts:
Original poster
VictoriaBlossom · 08/04/2023 08:10

@EyesOnThePies I genuinely had no idea until they sent me a letter to say "you've nicked our land, move your fence back" about a year ago. I responded and said can we come to a mutual agreement.
They didn't respond.... and then sent me a legal letter (above)

OP posts: