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Original poster

Divorce Finances - Will this happen?

57 replies

WishItWereSummer · 22/03/2023 11:16

Hello MN,

Have MC for this and posting for advice on behalf of a friend.

Currently divorcing couple. H is not a high earner £43k pa. W works PT. 4 Children, 16, 15, 12, 5. House Equity £30k approx.

H has moved out and is currently paying the mortgage & bills on the marital home whilst the W lives there with the children.

Have had several mediation sessions to work our finances but all have failed. W wants the H to continue to pay Mortgage, Bills & Child Support until youngest reaches 18, and is adamant that a court would grant this.
H currently cannot afford to continue paying all of this and house himself.

He has offered:

  1. To sell and split equity 60/40 to the wife with pension sharing order
  2. To sell and give all equity to the wife with no pension claims
  3. She buys him out of the property and takes over the mortgage herself
  4. She gets a Mesher Order and stays until youngest reaches 18 but she has to cover mortgage payments and bills and he will pay Child Support as agreed

She's refused them all, and thinks that the courts will allow her to stay until youngest is 18 and he will have to pay Mortgage & Bills as well as Child Support.

This can't be right surely?

Thanks in advance

OP posts:
Whenisitsummer · 22/03/2023 11:21

No it won’t happen. No sane court will expect someone earning 43k to pay mortgage, bills plus maintenance to keep ex and children in the family home when it will mean he can’t afford to house himself. What planet do some people live on 😣.

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 22/03/2023 11:22

Apologies, I got it wrong, equity is £70k - and he's offered her 80/20 split to her but she's refused this as well. She will only agree to him paying for the marital home for the next 12 years.

OP posts:
Can2022getanyworse · 22/03/2023 11:27

No chance.

She will be expected to work full time, claim all relevant benefits and CM.

If she can't afford to house herself - ie pay all bills and mortgage on the current home, and make best endeavours to take over the mortgage thilus releasing ex to buy his own place - then it will have to be sold.

She might get an order to stay in the house (rare, and will normally have a request to remove ex from mortgage) but she will have to support herself with salary, benefits and cms. Exh will not be expected to pay for both homes on £43k.

What does wife currently do, and earn, pt?

arethereanyleftatall · 22/03/2023 11:30

No, they would need enough money in the pot to fund two houses in order to keep the marital home, and they don't have that.

They don't have many assets, she is in danger of spending all of it on solicitors, if she doesn't start compromising.

He is as entitled to somewhere to live, even buy, as she is.

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 22/03/2023 11:30

Can2022getanyworse · 22/03/2023 11:27

No chance.

She will be expected to work full time, claim all relevant benefits and CM.

If she can't afford to house herself - ie pay all bills and mortgage on the current home, and make best endeavours to take over the mortgage thilus releasing ex to buy his own place - then it will have to be sold.

She might get an order to stay in the house (rare, and will normally have a request to remove ex from mortgage) but she will have to support herself with salary, benefits and cms. Exh will not be expected to pay for both homes on £43k.

What does wife currently do, and earn, pt?

ExW works PT currently due to childcare. Earns approx 20k p.a. She does Claim UC at present.
She says she won't earn enough for a mortgage on her own, and can't afford to pay mortgage payments anyway.
ExH states there is no physical reason she cannot work FT and is more than happy to do his share of childcare to enable her to do so.
They're just at an impass whereby she refuses to accept anything less than what she wants. Mediation has failed several times.
He just wants to get everything sorted so he can move on and house himself properly for the children.

OP posts:
Crazykatie · 22/03/2023 11:30

Either way the needs of all of you children included are taken into account, he has got to live and house himself as well as his family, if this means that his family have to move to cheaper housing that will happen.

NotDavidTennant · 22/03/2023 11:33

I believe Mesher orders are quite rare these days.

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 22/03/2023 11:36

Are there any other options in terms of a fair settlement that he hasn't considered?
He doesn't want to screw her over, he just wants both of them to be able to have a home for the children.

OP posts:
GingerBoot · 22/03/2023 11:41

Why doesn't he just get a solicito It's obvious W is not going to budge so it's going to end up in court anyway. Make an initial appt with solicitor. Majority will give initial 30 - 60 appt free and he'll at least be able to get a general idea of where he stands

arethereanyleftatall · 22/03/2023 11:42

She, and possibly he, need to understand that living separately costs loads more than living together. That's a big reason many miserable couples continue to stay together. Unless there's loads of money in the pot, there isn't, both their lives will need to be downgraded/they both will need to work more.

PizzaPastaWine · 22/03/2023 11:44

I echo legal advice and to get the legal ball rolling.

This has the ability to go on for years.

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 22/03/2023 11:46

He has had a free consultation and sought advice. He wants to try and do as much of it himself as possible as he doesn't have a great deal of money at the moment due to him paying for everything.

If he were to apply to the courts, what is the next step?

OP posts:
80sMum · 22/03/2023 11:58

Hmm, what a difficult problem to resolve. I feel for both of them, to be honest.

So, the husband has offered:

a) To sell and split equity 60/40 to the wife with pension sharing order

  • but how would the wife be able to afford to buy or rent another property to house herself and the children, if she's only earning £20k?

b) To sell and give all equity to the wife with no pension claims

  • this would be slightly better, as at least she'd have the £70k, but it still wouldn't enable her to be able to afford a mortgage and if she used it to supplement rental costs, what happens when it's all gone?

c) She buys him out of the property and takes over the mortgage herself

  • is this a realistic proposal? Does she have the means to buy him out? How would she be able to afford to pay the mortgage on a salary of £20k?

d) She gets a Mesher Order and stays until youngest reaches 18 but she has to cover mortgage payments and bills and he will pay Child Support as agreed

  • I don't know what a Mesher Order is, so can't comment on that. Again, I can't see how she could cover the mortgage payments and bills if she's earning £20k a year. If she increases her working hours, she'll have higher childcare costs which would eat a big chunk of the extra income.
Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 22/03/2023 12:08

80sMum · 22/03/2023 11:58

Hmm, what a difficult problem to resolve. I feel for both of them, to be honest.

So, the husband has offered:

a) To sell and split equity 60/40 to the wife with pension sharing order

  • but how would the wife be able to afford to buy or rent another property to house herself and the children, if she's only earning £20k?

b) To sell and give all equity to the wife with no pension claims

  • this would be slightly better, as at least she'd have the £70k, but it still wouldn't enable her to be able to afford a mortgage and if she used it to supplement rental costs, what happens when it's all gone?

c) She buys him out of the property and takes over the mortgage herself

  • is this a realistic proposal? Does she have the means to buy him out? How would she be able to afford to pay the mortgage on a salary of £20k?

d) She gets a Mesher Order and stays until youngest reaches 18 but she has to cover mortgage payments and bills and he will pay Child Support as agreed

  • I don't know what a Mesher Order is, so can't comment on that. Again, I can't see how she could cover the mortgage payments and bills if she's earning £20k a year. If she increases her working hours, she'll have higher childcare costs which would eat a big chunk of the extra income.

If the wife rents then UC would help towards the rent? Likewise with childcare - plus ExH has offered to take responsibility for 50% of any childcare needed.

I understand it's a horrible position for both, but he is concerned that he will end up having to pay the mortgage, bills & CMS for the exW, plus be able to house himself. It just doesn't seem right.

So just this morning, he offered her all of the equity in return for no pension claim and a clean break. She's refused.

The longer this drags out, the harder it is for him to survive as most of his money is going on the family home.

OP posts:
usererror99 · 22/03/2023 12:09

but how would the wife be able to afford to buy or rent another property to house herself and the children, if she's only earning £20k?

She'll be expected to work full time and maximise her earnings and live within her means. Maybe the kids will have to live with the husband if she can't do this. He earns £43k not £430k!!

this would be slightly better, as at least she'd have the £70k, but it still wouldn't enable her to be able to afford a mortgage and if she used it to supplement rental costs, what happens when it's all gone?

Not the husbands problem. She needs to work full time maximise her income and live within her means. 2 of the children will be adults within 3 years and the other 2 may have to share a room if they are the same sex

is this a realistic proposal? Does she have the means to buy him out? How would she be able to afford to pay the mortgage on a salary of £20k?

No. see above she needs to work full time and maximise her earnings

I don't know what a Mesher Order is, so can't comment on that. Again, I can't see how she could cover the mortgage payments and bills if she's earning £20k a year. If she increases her working hours, she'll have higher childcare costs which would eat a big chunk of the extra income

She can't which is why the house needs to be sold. Her youngest is school age so childcare costs will be decreased. See above she needs to work full time maximise her earnings. The OP has stated that the husband said he is willing to assist with this - ie providing childcare

OP he needs to get a solicitor and take this to court. She's being unreasonable. What had the mediator said? They sound useless to be honest.

He is under no obligation to continue to pay the mortgage currently

usererror99 · 22/03/2023 12:11

So just this morning, he offered her all of the equity in return for no pension claim and a clean break. She's refused

He needs to start getting tough with her. Tell her since he is no longer living there he can't be forced to pay the mortgage. If it's a joint mortgage it's just as much her debt as his. The bank doesn't care who pays. Tell her he is instructing a solicitor for a forced sale

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 22/03/2023 12:13

usererror99 · 22/03/2023 12:09

but how would the wife be able to afford to buy or rent another property to house herself and the children, if she's only earning £20k?

She'll be expected to work full time and maximise her earnings and live within her means. Maybe the kids will have to live with the husband if she can't do this. He earns £43k not £430k!!

this would be slightly better, as at least she'd have the £70k, but it still wouldn't enable her to be able to afford a mortgage and if she used it to supplement rental costs, what happens when it's all gone?

Not the husbands problem. She needs to work full time maximise her income and live within her means. 2 of the children will be adults within 3 years and the other 2 may have to share a room if they are the same sex

is this a realistic proposal? Does she have the means to buy him out? How would she be able to afford to pay the mortgage on a salary of £20k?

No. see above she needs to work full time and maximise her earnings

I don't know what a Mesher Order is, so can't comment on that. Again, I can't see how she could cover the mortgage payments and bills if she's earning £20k a year. If she increases her working hours, she'll have higher childcare costs which would eat a big chunk of the extra income

She can't which is why the house needs to be sold. Her youngest is school age so childcare costs will be decreased. See above she needs to work full time maximise her earnings. The OP has stated that the husband said he is willing to assist with this - ie providing childcare

OP he needs to get a solicitor and take this to court. She's being unreasonable. What had the mediator said? They sound useless to be honest.

He is under no obligation to continue to pay the mortgage currently

That's very helpful thank you.

No, mediator was useless from what I gather. Asked what each party wanted, ExH gave several different offers, Wife refused them all. Mediator told them to go away and think to try to find a solution in the middle....

You mentioned he is under no obligation at the moment to pay the mortgage? Could you please elaborate a little? She obviously won't pay towards it, and he certainly doesn't want to ruin his credit score by defaulting.

OP posts:
kweeble · 22/03/2023 12:18

I disagree - if his name is on the mortgage then he needs to keep up the payments.
Surely it would be best to pay for a solicitor now and sue for divorce?

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 22/03/2023 12:21

I've just checked, and mortgage is in ExH name only. So obviously he will continue with the mortgage payments in the interim.

Not sure if the mortgage being in his sole name is good or bad though? Will it make it easier for him to be able to sell the property?

OP posts:
Ponderingwindow · 22/03/2023 12:21

what does he mean by providing childcare? If he means watching the children himself on evenings and weekends, her earning power will be severely limited. Unless she is unrestrained by school hours just like he is, her earning power will remain low. Shared childcare needs to be shared paid childcare.

alpacamaraca · 22/03/2023 12:22

If the house is sold and W keeps the equity she wouldn't be able to claim UC / housing benefit and would need to use it to pay rent as far as I understand.

Unless she was able to apply for an adequate mortgage on a cheaper home in her own name of course.

80sMum · 22/03/2023 12:22

He is under no obligation to continue to pay the mortgage currently

I think he is under an obligation if his name is on the mortgage. Presumably he can't instruct an estate agent to sell the house either, because his wife and children are living in it and would be made homeless as a result. I assume the wife would not consent to the sale!

Anonhopingforbaby · 22/03/2023 12:22

ExW needs to get off her bum, start working full time and stop expecting someone else to pay for her.

ExH needs to get a solicitor and get himself sorted before ExW drains him down

Original poster
WishItWereSummer · 22/03/2023 12:23

Ponderingwindow · 22/03/2023 12:21

what does he mean by providing childcare? If he means watching the children himself on evenings and weekends, her earning power will be severely limited. Unless she is unrestrained by school hours just like he is, her earning power will remain low. Shared childcare needs to be shared paid childcare.

His ideal is 50/50 shared care for the children, but appreciates that the older ones may want to do different things. He has a great relationship with them.
He said he will pay all childcare costs for the days he has the children if he can't physically look after them at the time.

OP posts:
usererror99 · 22/03/2023 12:24

I only know as I'm divorcing myself - albeit I'm in the fortunate position that I'm the much higher earner - but ex husband stopped paying towards the mortgage (joint) as soon as he walked out.

My solicitor said whilst legally and morally he was obliged to continue to pay the reality is that there is no way of forcing him. Especially when he now had living costs (rent) elsewhere and effectively it was me now enjoying sole use of the home (him not having any access anymore).

Mortgages have joint and several liability meaning that if he stopped paying the bank didn't care - it was now solely up to me to pay

Has your friend calculated what his CMS would be? How much less is that than the mortgage? I'd be inclined for him to send her the CMS calc and tell that was what he is obliged to pay going forward and it's his discretion if he chooses to pay more. Remembering that 50/50 custody generally means that no CMS is due at all