Drunk in charge of vehicle defence

BooSaidTheGhost · 2022-10-24T10:17:29+00:00

DP and I had a stupid row which turned into a loud and heated argument late at night last weekend. Slamming doors and shouting, police were called by a neighbour. This has never happened before. We have always been able to resolve disagreements relatively calmly and both agree this must never happen again. He is devastated about how he behaved and how much he upset me, and I feel the same. We'd both consumed alcohol, him more than me but neither of us drunk. He went outside into the garden at my insistence to get some air and calm down. It was lashing down with rain, very windy and he took shelter in his car which was parked directly in front of our house on a private lane. The alarm kept sounding so he sat in the driver's seat and put the key in the ignition to disable it but didn't switch on the engine. The vehicle maker's app on his phone connected to the car shows a record of the alarm sounding and what time. He then texted me to say he was extremely sorry, that the car alarm kept going off, he couldn't legally drive anywhere, and could he come into the house to sleep on the sofa in our lounge. I wasn't able to reply, that is the exact moment when the police arrived. He was breathalysed and found to be just above the limit. They arrested him and have charged him with being drunk in charge of a vehicle. My understanding of this is that there must be a reasonable belief the person intends to drive, is that correct? He categorically was not going to drive the car, he was preparing to come back into the house and would never have put himself or other people at risk. I told this to the officers as did he but they seemed uninterested. It seems ludicrous that for a few brief moments sheltering from awful weather in the car, cooling off after an argument and asking me if he come back in, as he said in his messages, turning off the car alarm they have concluded he was intending to drive. Is it worth trying to defend this? Local solicitors are quoting £2,400 to do so. We are terrified he'll lose his license which would make work/family life very hard, and that a record will cause issues at work, the nature of which means he has to have special security clearances.

Batdad12 · 24/10/2022 11:27

100% you should fight this, but you need to hire a solicitor who specialises in this kind of offence not just your local ones, and i think a specialist soiicitor has a v good chance of getting this dropped.

No point trying to explain to the police, they wont just drop it, they are a results based organisation, they exist to get convictions whether its right or wrong

OhBeAFineGuyKissMe · 24/10/2022 11:35

Unfortunately they police are correct. Which is why they charged him with drunk in charge and not drink driving.

Even sleeping drunk in the car with the keys in your possession counts. There doesn’t need to be intent to drive.

I am not a lawyer but a teacher but we have a lawyer in every other year to go over issues like this, how they can fall foul of the law without realising it. This is one of the scenarios that is mentioned.

WhiskersPete · 24/10/2022 11:40

No point trying to explain to the police, they wont just drop it, they are a results based organisation, they exist to get convictions whether its right or wrong

But the police are not in the wrong as being drunk in charge of a vehicle is against the law. Whether morally you agree OP's DP is in the wrong or not he has still broken the law.

Waveacrossabay · 24/10/2022 11:41

The police are correct. It is an offence to have the keys in the ignition whilst drunk because he had the means of driving.

Why didn't you just let him in the house?

bettbburg · 24/10/2022 11:42

He committed the offence so there's no appropriate defence.

PrettyMuchBollocks · 24/10/2022 11:43

The police are correct. He was in the drivers seat, and the key was in the ignition, so he was in charge of the vehicle whilst drunk.

londongals · 24/10/2022 11:50

Sadly he will get a 12 month ban which can be reduced to 9 if he does a course
His insurance will be high although there are insurance cos who specialise in what is now a high risk driver as far as insurers are concerned
It says on the licence for 10 years sadly

I have no doubt that you are being 100% honest
Unfortunately the magistrates will have heard that a millions times and be skeptical

grayhairdontcare · 24/10/2022 11:56

He will get a ban for being drunk in charge of a vehicle.

YaWeeFurryBastard · 24/10/2022 11:56

I think the fact he had the key in the ignition will go against him unfortunately, why would he have the key in the ignition if he wasn’t intending to drive? Putting the key in the ignition does not disable the alarm any further than unlocking the car, something doesn’t add up.

YaWeeFurryBastard · 24/10/2022 11:58

My understanding of this is that there must be a reasonable belief the person intends to drive, is that correct?

That is correct but the fact he had the key in the ignition would indicate intent.

JabberwockyPie · 24/10/2022 11:59

He should never have got into the car like that. If the keys weren't in the vehicle then he would have been fine. But I don't think your dh has a defence.

OurChristmasMiracle · 24/10/2022 12:00

From an outside perspective he was sitting in the drivers seat whilst over the limit with the keys in the ignition - to anyone that would look like he has either just stopped or is about to start and at any rate would be in charge of the vehicle.

I would prepare yourself for him losing his licence.

LondonQueen · 24/10/2022 12:00

Why did he put the key in the ignition? Surely unlocking the car turns off the alarm, it does on every car I've owned. Unfortunately having the keys in the ignition will go against him.

WeepingSomnambulist · 24/10/2022 12:03

Your story doesn't make sense. The car alarm wouldnt be going off if the car was unlocked, which it was. No need to put the key in the ignition.

He was drunk in charge of a vehicle, not drunk driving, and he has been charged accordingly.

Batdad12 · 24/10/2022 12:07

There is indeed a defence.
www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic-drink-and-drug-driving.

"Section 5 RTA 1988 - Driving or being in charge with alcohol concentration above prescribed limit."

"In relation to being in charge of a motor vehicle, a person is not guilty if he proves that the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine exceeded the prescribed limit."

ZeroFuchsGiven · 24/10/2022 12:07

The police are correct and tbh I wouldnt believe that codswallop either, your story does not make sense.

alrightfella · 24/10/2022 12:10

I would think it would possibly depend what he wrote in the messages?

Did he make it clear (literally say the words) that he wasn't planning on drivIng?

Logoplanter · 24/10/2022 12:14

The advice you are getting on here is not good.

If he had no intention to drive the vehicle he does have a defence. He will need to establish that on the balance of probabilities. He doesn't need a fancy motoring lawyer, a local good criminal solicitor will be just as good. This isn't an unusual defence.

The text messages you have between you may help you, especially if as you've said he's stated in one of them that he can't drive, as that will help show he had no intention to.

Have a look at the magistrates sentencing guidelines - being in charge is not an automatic ban but if not banned then you get 10 points on your licence. So your husband could be liable to be disqualified under totting up depending on whether there are points on his licence already.

Hope that helps

Batdad12 · 24/10/2022 12:15

And you have evidence that he was going to come back in the house, not intending to drive. a specialist solicitor has a good chance to get this dropped.

re my earlier comment about the police, what i mean is our legal system is an adversarial one, and the police are on the side of the adversary.

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 24/10/2022 12:28

The letter of the law as outlined here about not sleeping in car with keys etc makes no sense. What about campervans? Are people seriously suggesting that everyone on a campervan holiday must remain teetotal or sleep under the vehicle?! Preposterous!

Having said that, OP your story doesn’t sound very plausible as you’ve told it here, so I’m not sure it’s worth fighting because it’s very circumstantial.

It sounds like you’re trying to explain a very unlikely series of events and unless you have admissible evidence it’s going to be he said/she said vs the police. It’s possible to change the time and date on a phone. The courts look at the ‘balance of probability’ so it depends whether you want DH to have a driving ban AND be £2400 down or just have a driving ban. There will always be a solicitor somewhere willing to take your money but I think you need to decide what the chance of success is and how much the outcome is worth to you.

Kissingfrogs25 · 24/10/2022 12:28

I am going to save you lots and lots of money by advising you that you do not legally have a leg to stand on. Regardless of whether he was driving or not, he was caught by the police sat in the driving seat with the key in the ignition. That is the law.

It will be an instant ban depending on his level recorded.

Kissingfrogs25 · 24/10/2022 12:30

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 24/10/2022 12:28

The letter of the law as outlined here about not sleeping in car with keys etc makes no sense. What about campervans? Are people seriously suggesting that everyone on a campervan holiday must remain teetotal or sleep under the vehicle?! Preposterous!

Having said that, OP your story doesn’t sound very plausible as you’ve told it here, so I’m not sure it’s worth fighting because it’s very circumstantial.

It sounds like you’re trying to explain a very unlikely series of events and unless you have admissible evidence it’s going to be he said/she said vs the police. It’s possible to change the time and date on a phone. The courts look at the ‘balance of probability’ so it depends whether you want DH to have a driving ban AND be £2400 down or just have a driving ban. There will always be a solicitor somewhere willing to take your money but I think you need to decide what the chance of success is and how much the outcome is worth to you.

I am assuming those sleeping in the camper van do not have their car keys in the ignition and sleep sozzled in the driving seat?

If they are, then yes they can be charged.

RishyWashy · 24/10/2022 12:31

PeekabooAtTheZoo · 24/10/2022 12:28

The letter of the law as outlined here about not sleeping in car with keys etc makes no sense. What about campervans? Are people seriously suggesting that everyone on a campervan holiday must remain teetotal or sleep under the vehicle?! Preposterous!

Having said that, OP your story doesn’t sound very plausible as you’ve told it here, so I’m not sure it’s worth fighting because it’s very circumstantial.

It sounds like you’re trying to explain a very unlikely series of events and unless you have admissible evidence it’s going to be he said/she said vs the police. It’s possible to change the time and date on a phone. The courts look at the ‘balance of probability’ so it depends whether you want DH to have a driving ban AND be £2400 down or just have a driving ban. There will always be a solicitor somewhere willing to take your money but I think you need to decide what the chance of success is and how much the outcome is worth to you.

Camper vans is a weird one. I used to have one and I used to hide the keys away to at least try and demonstrate no intention of driving.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 24/10/2022 12:33

It will be worth getting representation on this, there are defences and even if found guilty good mitigation could avoid a ban. It feels like a lot of money to spend but will be worthwhile.

Kissingfrogs25 · 24/10/2022 12:34

Logoplanter · 24/10/2022 12:14

The advice you are getting on here is not good.

If he had no intention to drive the vehicle he does have a defence. He will need to establish that on the balance of probabilities. He doesn't need a fancy motoring lawyer, a local good criminal solicitor will be just as good. This isn't an unusual defence.

The text messages you have between you may help you, especially if as you've said he's stated in one of them that he can't drive, as that will help show he had no intention to.

Have a look at the magistrates sentencing guidelines - being in charge is not an automatic ban but if not banned then you get 10 points on your licence. So your husband could be liable to be disqualified under totting up depending on whether there are points on his licence already.

Hope that helps

Everything you have said is incorrect.

There is NO defence for being in charge of a vehicle regardless of whether the driver is driving or simply sitting in the driving seat with the key in the ignition!

'Drink driving is a criminal offence that carries an obligatory driving disqualification of a minimum period of 12 months as laid out by the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988'

The ban will be automatic, the length of time depends on the volume of alcohol registered at the police station.

The courts have heard all of the excuses before I am afraid, please save your money for taxis that will be needed during the ban.