Drunk in charge of vehicle defence

[BooSaidTheGhost]

DP and I had a stupid row which turned into a loud and heated argument late at night last weekend. Slamming doors and shouting, police were called by a neighbour. This has never happened before. We have always been able to resolve disagreements relatively calmly and both agree this must never happen again. He is devastated about how he behaved and how much he upset me, and I feel the same. We'd both consumed alcohol, him more than me but neither of us drunk. He went outside into the garden at my insistence to get some air and calm down. It was lashing down with rain, very windy and he took shelter in his car which was parked directly in front of our house on a private lane. The alarm kept sounding so he sat in the driver's seat and put the key in the ignition to disable it but didn't switch on the engine. The vehicle maker's app on his phone connected to the car shows a record of the alarm sounding and what time. He then texted me to say he was extremely sorry, that the car alarm kept going off, he couldn't legally drive anywhere, and could he come into the house to sleep on the sofa in our lounge. I wasn't able to reply, that is the exact moment when the police arrived. He was breathalysed and found to be just above the limit. They arrested him and have charged him with being drunk in charge of a vehicle. My understanding of this is that there must be a reasonable belief the person intends to drive, is that correct? He categorically was not going to drive the car, he was preparing to come back into the house and would never have put himself or other people at risk. I told this to the officers as did he but they seemed uninterested. It seems ludicrous that for a few brief moments sheltering from awful weather in the car, cooling off after an argument and asking me if he come back in, as he said in his messages, turning off the car alarm they have concluded he was intending to drive. Is it worth trying to defend this? Local solicitors are quoting £2,400 to do so. We are terrified he'll lose his license which would make work/family life very hard, and that a record will cause issues at work, the nature of which means he has to have special security clearances.

This is known colloquially as the “campervan defence.” A drunk man sitting in the drivers’ seat of his car with the keys in the ignition cannot successfully demonstrate that there was “no likelihood of his driving the vehicle”, because all he had to do to drive the vehicle was turn the key a centimetre in one direction and press his foot on the pedal. It’s very likely he could drive it.

It’s why the first thing we do when we park our camper up on site is open the pop top, wind out the canopy and stake it into the ground, festoon said canopy with fairy lights hooked up to a solar generator placed outside the can. So we can demonstrate there was “no likelihood” it could feasibly be driven.

And to expand on this, there are generally 4 tests for whether you’re in charge of a vehicle when it does come to a defence:

(1) Were you in the vehicle
(2) Where were the keys
(3) What were you doing
(4) Did you intend to drive.

As the answers in the OPs husbands case, as set out, are ‘Yes’, ‘In the ignition’, ‘Sitting in the drivers seat’ its going to be very difficult to convince anyone that the answer to 4 is ‘No’

Maybe if the answers had been ‘Yes’, ‘In a pocket’ (assuming the car’s not a keyless go one), ‘sleeping in the boot’ then he’d have a chance of persuading a judge that the answer to 4 was ‘No’. But they weren’t, so he doesn’t.

Sounds like you've cooked up a story to me.

Why did he even have his keys on him if he had just gone out to calm down?

I presume any cases where there was potentially a really good defence wouldn't have made it to court though?

For example say a guy is working on his car in his driveway and revving the engine, he's drinking but the wheels are physically off the car and the car is on jacks. He's technically drunk in charge of a car but there would be no likelihood that he would drive the car. That wouldn't get past the CPS surely??

I was over the limit once and decided to stay at a mates. Opened the boot to get my coat out, and there was a copper there who told me that technically i could get done for being drunk in charge of a vehicle but that he wouldn't take it any further as I was just getting my coat. He said that you don't have to have the keys in the ignition etc., but just by being in the vehicle I could knock the hand brake off or something causing the car to damage something or someone. Fortunately he was a copper with common sense. Either that or he couldn't be arsed with the paperwork...

If the vehicle is on private land, e.g. driveway there is no offence.

@BooSaidTheGhost “he took shelter in his car which was parked directly in front of our house on a private lane”.
Surely if the lane is private property, he can’t be charged with this?

It looks like people have successfully challenged this in the past for being on a private road.

Have a read of the below article OP.

Basically the police can prove he was drunk in charge of a vehicle. So, he will automatically be found guilty unless HE can prove that he didn’t intend to drive. Usually you’d have a big problem here, but the text message on the phone is important evidence if he is clearly asking to sleep and saying he can’t drive. It might be enough to get him found not guilty.

You could also be a witness, and your statements are evidence, although the court might not believe you as you were drunk and are in a relationship. However they might believe you.

If you can’t afford solicitors you might still want to defend this yourself, ie plead not guilty, do some research, and go to court with a timed and dated print out of the text message plus a witness statement from you.

www.caineslaw.co.uk/services/driving-offences-solicitors/drunk-in-charge/?gclid=CjwKCAjw79iaBhAJEiwAPYwoCHyfKisbzOar-d4hheAEHS8sAuJNQuAHojIGST88ofAA4fW6fWzSxhoCeEwQAvD_BwE

This is not legal advice, etc…

Please don't listen to kissingfrogs25. They are talking rubbish and if they work for the CPS doing any job that requires legal knowledge I am concerned!

There is a defence as I and some others have outlined. Whether your husband would be successful with it is a different matter.

I am a former criminal defence solicitor. I successfully defended many people in this situation over a 30 year period. If your DP goes to court and pleads NG on the basis of the statutory defence he will be able to get some advice from the Duty Solicitor free of charge, and can then decide where to go from there. One idea might be to do all the case prep yourself and then instruct a barrister directly for the trial, that would be less expensive. I think, on the basis of this limited information he has a good chance of success - CPS might even be persuaded to drop the case. I’m surprised that some people with no legal knowledge have come on here with such inappropriate comments.

@Astrabees I can't believe you are surprised that posters have given such inappropriate advice on this thread. Are you new to Mumsnet? 😁

It happens all the time. Have you seen threads where posters are asking for medical advice? 🤦🏻‍♀️ It be hilarious if it wasn't potentially so damaging.

Posters can diagnose the most complex ailments with just a few sentences in an OP.

Why would he have taken the keys out with him?

to get back in the house...? I never go out without my keys' even if someone is in.

I’ve been on mumsnet for years but threads on criminal defence matters where there is a contribution to be made are few and far between . This thread had me itching to come out of retirement to sort it out!

This ^^
And bulls… to putting the key in the ignition to stop the alarm, I bet he had the engine running to keep warm.
Hehasto prove he wasn’t going to drive anywhere, heaven knows how he’ll do that 🤷🏼‍♀️

It was a private road . . .

@Astrabees like you I’m a former criminal lawyer so my Mags Ct info is very out of date but will the duty sol still see someone w/o legal aid?

Assuming in this case there is no chance of obtaining same.

The law relating to private roads and driving offences is complicated and the subject of much legal wrangling.

The chances of the offence not being made out because the road is “private” are remote. It’d have to be used almost exclusively by the OP and likely have a physical barrier to it to be exempt.

Depends where you are OP, but I believe in Scotland they can't do you for it on private land. A private road in this respect would be one where no other people would be expected to drive up it except people going to your house (your visitors, postie, etc). So basically a driveway for your sole use, and which is obviously a private driveway.
If the private road you mention is shared with your neighbours I don't believe it counts, and the police can still do you.
This may or may not be the same in the other UK nations.
Definitely seek expert legal advice though.

I don’t understand why you both could not have just went to separate rooms to cool down instead of you kicking him out? That seems really odd to me, especially as fresh air when drunk actually increases your inebriation. And if he was breathalysed and failed that then he’s obviously drank enough to be intoxicated, whether you’ll admit to that or not. Seems you were both rather daft on the night now you’re both paying for the consequences of it.

Putting the key in the ignition does disable the alarm in my car..

It’s pretty obvious that they aren’t legally qualified. 😂

Ignore those saying there is no defence and consult a specialist lawyer

I have a van, and work on the basis that the police would have a hard time arguing that I had any intent to drive if they find me in my slippers, or under the duvet in the back of the van, with the keys tucked safely away (nowhere near the ignition).

OP - your story doesn't make sense. You don't need to put keys in the ignition to stop an alarm. And why was the alarm going off? It seems very convenient that it chose that moment to go off.

And if "He went outside into the garden at my insistence to get some air and calm down" then why did he take his car keys? I don't take my car keys when I go into the garden.

None of it adds up I'm afraid.

Yes, but that's not the only way is it? Pressing the unlock button does it just as well in every car I've ever driven.