Deposit dispute

[queenjaneappro]

Hello...
Left property last week.
Never had an inventory, no check in / out reports and no inspection reports.

LL attended annually to do gas check and never raised any issues.

There was damage to doors - due to autistic sons meltdowns. LL always said don't worry I'll replace them all anyway when you leave.

Also told me not to worry about the carpets / windows as he was ripping them all out when I left.

Back in April I said I would get professional deep clean when I left - he said no need for that, you will get all your deposit back.

So come leaving day he is really agitated. Said he was unhappy and disappointed (despite being in 2 weeks previously to measure for new windows) - I said can we discuss this and talk about the deposit . He refused to discuss said ' I need a week'. My brother was with me and said he thought he seemed to be on the verge of a breakdown - it was all very strange.

So lo and behold today he said he is keeping all of the deposit. Reasons like - damage to doors - that he previously said don't worry about.

I mentioned there was no inventory/ check in / out etc for his claim and he said 'doesn't matter I've got videos'.

Just wondering if on the face of it his claim would not succeed due to lack of written evidence - and no inspection reports etc - was there for 9 years so long time.

If it is considered - does my word count against his - there is nothing in writing. Would that not indicate he's not a very good landlord and didn't take responsibility seriously?

It is in deposit scheme so I think he sets out his claim then I get a chance to respond?

In the absence of any inventory or schedule of condition before you moved in, if he has videos of the damage that proves nothing. He cannot prove that the damage wasn't already there!

You should put in a request to the scheme for your full deposit now, no need to wait (unless your scheme says otherwise).

The LL will then have to dispute and provide evidence. After 9 years, and no inventory or condition report upon move in, I think his chances of retaining any deposit are slim to none.

He says he's got videos, so assume before and after. That will count if the videos are dated.

9 years is a long time, so it's unlikely he would get anything for things like carpets, but doors, windows, he might.

The onus is on him to prove damage beyond wear and tear, it's not on you to prove you didn't cause it.

Some LL's are absolute arseholes. Hope you get your money back op.

The deposit schemes have slightly different procedures, so what happens next depends on the scheme. Which is it?

They also have slightly different product lifespan defintions. I doubt the landlord will get anything for the carpets after 9 years as they have reached the end of their expected lifespan, unless they were very expensive carpets? Even if they were, the landlord can only claim for cost of having to replace the carpet before it's expected lifespan eg if the carpet is medium quality with an expected lifespan of 10 years but it is 7 years old, the landlord could only claim for 30% of the replacement cost (because he lost 30% of the expected lifespan).

It will count against him that there is no inventory. Even if he has videos, if you weren't shown them before and had a chance to dispute them if they weren't correct, it will be your word against his if you say that they are not an accurate reflection of the condition of the doors when you moved in. With some schemes, you get to see his evidence, with others, you don't.

What is the damage he is claiming for and which scheme is it? Can the damage be repaired or will it require replacement? What was the condition when you moved in?

Morally and legally, if you have caused serious damage, you are liable to pay for it, as much as you have my sympathy.

Thanks everyone.
I have submitted a request to the scheme today saying I want the deposit back in full.

Re the damage to the doors - I don't deny that we caused it, but he said repeatedly over the years he would replace them when we left. Now he's changed his mind apparently! It was verbal - is the adjudicator more than likely to believe me or him? Do they just make a judgment on who they believe?

The whole 9 years he never redecorated or did anything.

It's Deposit Protection Service

If he had ever said the damage was as issue I would have fixed it!

There are no inspection reports - but he was in every year as he did the gas safety check himself.

Does it go in my favour that he didn't do an inspection report re damage to doors? If it was an issue for him he should have?

It's pretty disgusting behaviour to damage doors and then refuse to pay for them, and the landlord is entitled to compensation for the damage. Whether they are replacing doors or not is nothing to do with you.

The carpets were already 10/15 years old when we moved in. Really horrible and dated, but he always said he was going to replace them and never did....

@lovehamble
no - it's disgusting for him to lie to me for years and say don't worry about it. I did offer to pay and get it fixed at the time - years ago and he said no need I am replacing them after you leave.

@LoveHamble
Also 'disgusting' did you read the bit where I said they were caused by my autistic son during meltdown?

Your attitude is disgusting. Morally I have done nothing wrong. The landlord had lied to me. And I was stupid and too trusting to get what he said in writing. I have learnt my lesson. People are arseholes.

He's probably got an argument with the doors but not the carpets.

unfortunately you can’t prove he said that and your son did damage them (appreciate why) so it will cost money to fix or replace them.
You probably stand a better chance with the carpet though

@hoppinggreen thanks - more fool me for taking him at his word! I don't have an issue paying for the damage - despite the fact he's replacing them anyway! But don't think he should get the whole deposit back. I guess he will have to itemise/ cost the damage in his claim...

You don't get to see his evidence with the DPS. I would email him, remind him that there was no inventory and ask him to send you the videos he told you he had at the move out inspection so you can confirm that it is a true reflection of the condition of the doors when you moved in. If he refuses, it will count against him.

It's annoying that he has gone back on his word but I think he has the right to change his mind once he has seen the damage in full. I would still state in your dispute that he knew that you had an autistic child (and was therefore expecting greater wear and tear than normal) and told you that the damage to the doors didn't matter as he was intending on replacing the doors when you left anyway. You could offer to pay for the cost of the materials but not the labour because he denied you the opportunity to do the work yourself by telling you that he was replacing them anyway. You should also get your own quotes for the work and materials, in case he is over charging. If it is just cosmetic issues (scratches, chips) and he hasn't decorated in 9 years, you can argue that, as he should expect to redecorate regularly (every 2-6 years), it would be betterment if he charges you to paint/sand the doors.

www.depositprotection.com/learning-centre/disputes/in-disputes-be-fair

What kind of damage is it? Decorative issues like chips, scratches, and marks that can easily be fixed or is the damage structural, eg dents, holes? Can the damage be repaired or will they need to be replaced? Replacement could actually be cheaper than repair. What kind of condition were they in when you moved in?

What kind of doors were they? Solid wood doors should last forever. The hollow doors have a limited lifespan. If you can find out roughly how old they were (eg from archived property sale/rental details or age of the property if it is a new build) and get some links to show the expected lifespan of a hollow door, you could offer a percentage of the replacement cost for the lost lifespan (the formula is in the link above).

www.vibrantdoors.co.uk/internal-doors/advice/can-internal-doors-be-cut-to-size-and-other-frequently-asked-questions
interior.tn/advice/how-long-do-hollow-core-doors-last/

This is a chance you take as a landlord though - if you want to protect yourself get an inventory done at the start.

OP the DPS will order your deposit to be returned with no inventory or written/photographic evidence.

I am a landlord btw.

He doesn't stand a chance with the carpets if they were 10/15 years old when you moved in 9 years ago. See the link I posted above with the DPS expected lifespans.

If you can find archived property photos to prove the age of the carpet, that would make your case watertight. If not, you just need to state that you loved at the property for 9 years and the carpets were already 10/15 years old when you moved in. If you have any photos showing they were in poor condition when you moved in, that would help too.

If you’re moving to another rented property, I’d suggest requesting a move-in inspection if they don’t automatically offer one, in order to protect yourself from this in future.

I think he may have a point about the doors if they’re badly damaged, regardless of why it happened. Not the old carpets.

Not necessarily. Not having an inventory weighs heavily against the landlord but it doesn't mean that they will automatically find in favour of the tenant.

The landlord says he has videos (presumably dated). OP did cause the damage.

If we are taking minor damage or cosmetic issues, they will probably find in favour of OP.

If the doors are smashed up with holes in them, they will probably accept the landlord's word as it is unlikely he would have been able to let the property in that condition and anyone with any common sense would have documented that kind of damage if they moved into a badly damaged property and asked for it to be repaired.

is the adjudicator more than likely to believe me or him? Do they just make a judgment on who they believe?
They oy go by the evidence provided to them, not who they believe.

It's pointless to mention that he'd agreed for you not to have to pay for them to be fixed or that he was planning on replacing them. That will be irrelevant.

They will only consider, if you disagree that the doors were in good condition when you move in, what evidence the LL has to the contrary. If he can evidence that they were, and that they are now damaged, they will most likely agree that he should keep some of the deposit.

Saying that, I agree that not having an inventory will go against him. Depending on the adjudicator, they might not be inclined on watching a whole video if that's what he sends.

He's got no chance with the carpets. Did he raise anything else?

Why should the landlord have to replace doors damaged by you? I would not consider doors to
Be a wear and tear item.

Thanks for all the responses, will reply properly later.
I have NC'd.

Would there be much if your deposit left after he replaced the doors?

Why should the landlord have to replace doors damaged by you? I would not consider doors to
Be a wear and tear item.

I didn't say they should have to. He told me not to worry about the damage as he intended to replace them when I left anyway. I offered to fix and he said no. Just unfortunately I trusted him and didn't get that in writing.