Deposit dispute

[queenjaneappro]

Hello...
Left property last week.
Never had an inventory, no check in / out reports and no inspection reports.

LL attended annually to do gas check and never raised any issues.

There was damage to doors - due to autistic sons meltdowns. LL always said don't worry I'll replace them all anyway when you leave.

Also told me not to worry about the carpets / windows as he was ripping them all out when I left.

Back in April I said I would get professional deep clean when I left - he said no need for that, you will get all your deposit back.

So come leaving day he is really agitated. Said he was unhappy and disappointed (despite being in 2 weeks previously to measure for new windows) - I said can we discuss this and talk about the deposit . He refused to discuss said ' I need a week'. My brother was with me and said he thought he seemed to be on the verge of a breakdown - it was all very strange.

So lo and behold today he said he is keeping all of the deposit. Reasons like - damage to doors - that he previously said don't worry about.

I mentioned there was no inventory/ check in / out etc for his claim and he said 'doesn't matter I've got videos'.

Just wondering if on the face of it his claim would not succeed due to lack of written evidence - and no inspection reports etc - was there for 9 years so long time.

If it is considered - does my word count against his - there is nothing in writing. Would that not indicate he's not a very good landlord and didn't take responsibility seriously?

It is in deposit scheme so I think he sets out his claim then I get a chance to respond?

Would there be much if your deposit left after he replaced the doors?

No, £1400 deposit and he's saying that what the costs for the doors is.

How big is the house?!

£33 a door in B&Q https://www.diy.com/departments/6-panel-primed-white-woodgrain-effect-lh-rh-internal-door-h-1981mm-w-762mm-t-35mm/26935BQ.prd?storeId=1091&dss_rl=1272379&dsrl=1272409&dssrl=1272379&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI15fqhI6S-gIVQuztCh25aQjyEAQYASABEgJIqfDBwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

@chesirecat99 Really helpful information, thank you. I have requested the videos - he has read it but not replied yet.

The damage was dents/holes to 2 doors but he is saying 8 need to be replaced - they don't.

The doors were shabby and battered when we moved in, like the carpets I'd say 10/15 years old. Hence him saying don't worry they're knackered and I'm going to replace them all.

They are hollow doors and I'm going to do some research on lifespan etc.

Thanks again for your helpful comments.

How big is the house?!

A small 3 bedroom! I think he's being way OTT

@Cameleongirl
Yes in another rented property, no inventory or check in report. I am going to take my own pictures of the whole house tonight and email them to new LL saying do you agree this a an accurate relegation of the property today.

I don't want to LL bash, but if you are going to do it then do it properly.

Isn't there a guidebook or something that says most important thing is to get an agreed inventory on day 1?! 🤷‍♀️

@girlmom21 those B&Q doors are much much nicer!!!!!!

Relegation?!!!! Reflection....

He's having you on then - he could easily get a batch of shit doors for £20 a pop max!

You'd think landlords would want to have a record of the property's condition at move-in, it's ridiculous that they haven't bothered.

I agree with PP's, he's chancing his luck saying that all 8 doors need replacing with your deposit money when only 2 are damaged. If he wants to replace all the doors, fine, but he's got to pay for at least 6 of them. As for 2 doors costing £1,400...yeah, right.

Isn't there a guidebook or something that says most important thing is to get an agreed inventory on day 1?!

www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-rent/how-to-rent-the-checklist-for-renting-in-england#when-youve-found-a-place

The "How to Rent" booklet advises getting a professional inventory but it is not law. However, it has been the law since 2015 that landlords must provide tenants with the "How to Rent" booklet for all new tenancies, and existing tenancies when they are renewed or move to a statutory periodic tenancy. Did your landlord give you a copy?

Is everything else in order? Does the property have a valid EPC? A valid EICR (electrical test)? I would read the booklet and see if your landlord has breached any laws. It doesn't make any difference to the deposit dispute but it might give you leverage if the landlord thinks you might make a complaint and he could have some fines heading his way...

That said, you did damage 2 doors. You should pay for them to be repaired or replaced.

I would email the landlord (so you have it in writing) and remind him that he told you he was intending to replace all the doors when you left and he told you not to bother repairing them. Tell him that the doors were in poor condition when you moved in and describe them (eg chips/scratches) and that you believe them to be X years old and the expected lifespan of the door is Y years. Using the formula I linked to, offer him the appropriate percentage of the cost of 2 new doors. Advise him that a landlord is not entitled to benefit from an improvement
or enhancement in value of the property at the tenant’s expense unless this had been specifically agreed beforehand. He would benefit if an award was made on a ‘new for old’ basis. Allowance must therefore be made for the age of an item at the start of the tenancy, the length of the tenancy and the usual life expectancy of the item. Send him the link to the DPS formula for calculating the proportion of the cost that the tenant should pay.

I would also tell him that you will not agree to pay for the labour costs because you could have replaced them and done the work yourself but he denied you the opportunity to do that because he told you not to do it. State that you will not pay for the other doors because they have no structural damage, only cosmetic, and you believe the cosmetic damage constitutes fair wear and tear after a 9 year tenancy where no redecoration took place.

@chesirecat99

However, it has been the law since 2015 that landlords must provide tenants with the "How to Rent" booklet for all new tenancies, and existing tenancies when they are renewed or move to a statutory periodic tenancy. Did your landlord give you a copy?

No, and tenancy was amended from a joint tenancy to a single tenancy in 2018 when my ex left. No booklet was given to me.

Also, I don’t know if relevant but he never amended the deposit scheme to take off my ex’s details. So when the dispute was lodged my ex received texts and emails- so data breaches here? What if I was fleeing DV and my ex knowing I had moved was a safeguarding issue?

Is everything else in order? Does the property have a valid EPC? A valid EICR (electrical test)?
I never had a copy of an EPC - I will try to find out if there was one and I just never had a copy… No EICR - he mentioned it a few times and said he would schedule it but never did.

I will read that booklet now to see if there is anything else he didn’t do….

That said, you did damage 2 doors. You should pay for them to be repaired or replaced.

Yeah I agree. Just leaves a sour taste that he changed his mind. I get the feeling he might have some financial issues and is using this as an opportunity to try and get some money. I will look at the formula and work out what I think is more reasonable that £1400!

I did a search and there is an EPC.

Ask him for receipts for the 2 doors and videos then make him an offer, if he doesn't agree, you will have to go to dispute. Remind him that he told you not to fix them.

I would also remind him that there is a fine of up to £30k for each breach of the regulations (if he has more than 1 property) for not having a EICR.

Here is the EPC checker:
www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate

The fine for not having an EPC is only £200 but, it is unlawful to let a property with a rating less than E (unless the building is exempt eg a listed building), he could be fined up to £5k.

If the tenancy changed from a joint tenancy to a single tenancy, I believe the landlord should have returned the deposit, taken a new deposit and reprotected the deposit and served you with the prescribed information again. If he hasn't protected your deposit correctly, you can take him to court (it's very easy, you just fill in some simple forms) and ask for a minimum of 1x the deposit in compensation, up to 3x the deposit. I would call the DPS asap and check that I am correct that he needed to reprotect the deposit.

It's not just a data breach issue, your ex has a claim on the deposit if it hasn't been reprotected in just your name.

landlordlawblog.co.uk/2021/10/26/can-this-landlord-reprotect-his-deposit-if-renewal-agreement-is-different/

It looks like you might be getting a bonus! As much as I think you should pay for the doors, landlords who break safety regulations like the EICR make me mad...

If the tenancy changed from a joint tenancy to a single tenancy, I believe the landlord should have returned the deposit, taken a new deposit and reprotected the deposit and served you with the prescribed information again. If he hasn't protected your deposit correctly, you can take him to court (it's very easy, you just fill in some simple forms) and ask for a minimum of 1x the deposit in compensation, up to 3x the deposit. I would call the DPS asap and check that I am correct that he needed to reprotect the deposit.

What he did was give my ex half the deposit - then said to me you owe me £700 but no rush pay me back whenever, I didn’t like that so paid him the £700 straight away. When I received the amended tenancy the same deposit scheme was listed and I assumed he would’ve done what he needed to do.

I called DPS yesterday and the person on the phone said just set it out in your response to the claim- I said but what if the deposit wasn’t validly held as tenants changed she said it was ok as the deposit scheme start date was the same. I will call again tomorrow and try and explain again…..
*
Also - when he returned ex's half some of the damage to doors had already occurred...*

It is not possible under English law to 'amend' a tenancy. If this is what actually happened, then it has no effect and your ex is still responsible for the tenancy, therefore it is correct not to change the deposit to reflect a change that under law did not take place.

If a new tenancy agreement was issued, normally this will effect the termination of the old tenancy unless it was during a fixed term. If during a fixed term it will depend upon whether all parties agreed to the termination of the tenancy and a new tenancy being issued.

The landlord does not have to carry out any work. The purpose of the deposit is to compensate the landlord for any losses he incurs through the actions of the tenant. If he decides to buy new doors, it may cost £30 for doors from B n Q but I'll bet it costs upwards of £150 to £250 to fit per door. It's an awful job and takes a long time, particularly if the doors are not standard modern size so have to be cut to fit.

If you cause damage you should own it.

@LoveHamble Have I done something to offend you personally? Do you mean to be so snippy? Are you my landlord??!!

At what point have I not 'owned' it.

I admit the damage but query the amount he wants to be reimbursed. I'm allowed to do that especially when he is lying saying it is 8 doors when it is so.

His actions as a LL have been negligent. No inventory, no check in/out reports, no inspection reports.

No electric check as required by law.

Now it seems the deposit wasn't protected properly.

I have been a good tenant but he has lied to me.

If you can't be reasonable then just go and wind someone else up.

It's an awful job and takes a long time, particularly if the doors are not standard modern size so have to be cut to fit.

Then he shouldn't have said 'don't worry about it, I'm fitting new doors' and he should have let me rectify it at the time, or he should have logged it on an inspection report at the time .

Is the deposit in a custodial scheme or an insured scheme (where the landlord holds the deposit)? Was a new AST issued when the tenancy changed in 2018?

This is getting a bit too complex for my knowledge of property law, you need to get legal advice. There may be a free housing legal advice service where you live. Shelter are good but they are overwhelmed. You could try the CAB. Which? have a very cheap legal service who could advise you. You might have legal protection with your home insurance. Maybe start a new thread with that specific question.

The customer service advisors at the DPS are not lawyers so this may not be something they can advise on without escalating it as it is not a common situation.

He could have done a deposit transfer but he didn't:
www.depositprotection.com/learning-centre/agent-resources/tenant-transfer-tool/

If he had done that, he would have to certify that the deposit was returned outside of the scheme to your ex and you have topped up the deposit. He would also have to certify that there was no claim against the deposit at that point. You would have been given the chance to object ie because there was already damage that you would then solely be held liable for.

If a new AST was issued, I think it might constitute a new tenancy so the deposit should have been returned and reprotected. Certainly, either that or a tenant/deposit transfer should have taken place.

It is possible that the DPS might refuse to deal with the dispute if there wasn't a deposit transfer because they can't deal with complex legal issues.

This is legal. You posed a question about the deposit. I have given you information you can use to establish whether the landlord had a duty to refund the deposit and then reinstate it into the scheme in your sole name. I'm sorry you don't like the answer.

You are legally responsible for damage caused to the property you were renting. You are asking questions that appear to establish you do not want to pay for the damage.

Just because you don't like the answer, that is not my problem it's yours. You're welcome.

@chesirecat99

It’s a custodial scheme.

I signed a new AST with me as the sole tenant . Sorry if I used confusing language before, I should have said that rather than amended tenancy.

I will see if I can get some legal advice tomorrow… if not then I might start another thread as you suggest.

I’ll try and get the advice before I speak to DPS.

Thanks again for all your replies, really informative and useful.

@LoveHamble

have given you information you can use to establish whether the landlord had a duty to refund the deposit and then reinstate it into the scheme in your sole name. I'm sorry you don't like the answer.

No issues with your answers. But you didn't just give me information you said I was disgusting and that I should own the damage. You unnecessarily made it personal and unpleasant for no reason. I hope you have got whatever satisfaction you needed by being unkind. Now DFOD.

His actions as a LL have been negligent. No inventory, no check in/out reports, no inspection reports.

There is no requirement under current law to carry out an inventory, a check in or check out report, or an inspection. That is totally up to the individual landlord how they conduct their business.

An electrical safety report should have been carried out before the 1st April 2021 and you should have been given a copy of the report within 28 days.

Sadly it is highly unlikely you will be able to do anything about this. The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020 allow for the LA EH to prosecute landlords who do not follow the regulations, but I think you'll find they are not interested prosecuting as you are no longer in the property and they are 'fire fighting' due to lack of resources.

Actually I didn't call you disgusting, I said your behaviour is disgusting and I added later that you should own it. You are legally responsible for damage your child caused.

Judging from your responses I can see why your landlord had a problem with your attitude after you left the property. Perhaps that's why he is determined to charge you for the damage?

An electrical safety report should have been carried out before the 1st April 2021 and you should have been given a copy of the report within 28 days.

He has a number of properties. It's worrying to think he manages them all the same way.

In which case it's worth dropping EH at your LA know. They may start checking up on the properties but I doubt it. As I said there is very little enforcement being carried out particularly since legal aid went.