Being prepared - possible divorce

[isthistheendtakeabreath]

I know I need legal advice and I will get it but I suppose I like to be prepared mentally for what's likely to happen

In summary
I earn £65k he earns £25k
Married 10 years together 20
3 young children
House is mortgaged and worth £330k - mortgage is currently £180k - the mortgage is a tenancy in common 75% split to me but I believe being married trumps that

I have pensions so does he but obviously mine are worth more as I earn more

No one gave up work for children - both work full time

In an ideal world I'd like to buy him out - I'm guessing the equity would need to be split 50/50? . He would only be able to have the kids 2 nights per fortnight (due to work)
I'd be happy to forgo CMS if he didn't make a claim on my pension?

I suppose I'm wondering if this is reasonable?

In our area he could rent a 2 bed flat with his salary/equity - he definitely wouldn't be able to buy on his single salary.

Hey I am in similar situation as you. Can you update me too how things worked out?

@sumleo

This is all pretty new for me so don't have any answers yet. I need to speak to a solicitor really so will arrange something for a couple of weeks time

If the boot was on the other foot, would you accept no pension from the higher earner? That calculation needs careful
consideration. Everything will go into the pot. How will he have three children in a 2 bed flat? He would be better advised to try and earn more.

He does have a pension - he pays into his work one it will be just be less than mine because we earn so differently

Yes he could earn more but won't

I suppose when I was looking at CMS it said for 3 kids it would be £300 a month even on his salary - our two youngest are age 1 so he'd have 17 years of CMS the value of which is more than the value of half my pension as it stands

You might not get cms from him with your salary over double his. It seems unfairly slanted in your favour atm which isn't reasonable. You really do need to speak to a solicitor.

Well this is nonsense. CMS is completely separate. It's calculated as a percentage of salary based on overnight splits. She absolutely would get it if he was only having the children twice a fortnight and the fact she earns more is irrelevant.

OP - on the face of it, the split seems unlikely as it is so heavily in your favour. I'd expect him to be granted more than 50% of the equity to put you on a more equal footing house-wise. It doesn't sound like he could adequately house the children your way.

Forgoing CMS in return for leaving your pension is a bad idea and his solicitor should tell him so. (child maintenance agreements can be overturned and reverted to CMS after a year so you could totally screw him).

I'd also be wary of assuming he will only have them two nights a fortnight. He can ask for more and out childcare in place. Every other weekend and mid-week night is a more standard minimum.

To expand on the house split....

Your mortgage raising capacity is far higher than his. Typically the equity split should balance this out.

So your mortgage capacity is approx £260-290k

His is £100k ish (diminished by CMS).

There's £150k equity in the house.

Giving him ALL the equity still leaves him on a far worse footing than you. I don't think that will happen, but I think 75% in his favour is plausible.

That would give him £213k to buy (equity plus mortgage with a £113k deposit).

You'd have between £290-£320k (deposit plus mortgage).

He might get a bit more of your pension to even things out a bit also.

@OnceUponAThread

Thanks - he wouldn't be able to put childcare in place mid week as he starts work at 430am and works every other weekend so a mid week stay would be impossible

I'd be happy for him to collect them at 330 every day and bring them home do their tea and spend time with them but they just wouldn't be able to sleep where he lived

In terms of mortgage capacity - 2 of the children are twins. Their childcare cost is twice the cost of the mortgage we have so actually when taken into account my capacity isn't much more than him as he doesn't pay the bill now - does that get taken into account when doing the calculations? Otherwise I'd demand that he pays half of that .....he cant have it both ways?

If he was to have 75% then neither of us could afford an equal home in this area.

If that was to happen I'd have to move away with the children to a cheaper area and that would be Miles away - I'd need to move to family which is at least 200 miles and mean removing eldest from her school? I can do that as my work is flexible (WFH) he has a fixed place of work so can't really move far

I've reached out to some solicitors so will see what they say.

Hello. This isn't legal advice but my experience. I divorced (no children) but had a much higher income and ex-husband wasn't working due to alcohol issues.

My solicitor was very risk adverse and stated that back in 2015 when we separated there were very little going through the courts where the women was the much higher earner and as such he was concerned that my ex-husband would have a claim for spousal maintenance. We agreed a 80:20 split in his favour of our net proceeds from our property and submitted our financial agreement to court. In return for a clean break.

Court initially rejected the proposal as they were expecting to see a 50:50 split. Court did approve with further explanation.

My point is that even with income disparity court still expected 50:50.

Ideally - agree a position with your ex husband. Solicitors and courts cost so much money. I may have given a bit too much to my ex but it was worth every penny to get a clean break and be able to start again

Thanks @lifehappens12

Yes I'd be happy with 50/50 on the house - if he wanted my pension then I'd make a claim on CMS. I don't want to punish him but I've always considered it a bit cheeky for someone to be left post divorce in a better financial position than if they had never met their spouse especially when they won't be the primary parent for children

He won’t be in a better financial position. He earns a lot less! He won’t be able to house your DC on your sums. Is that what you want for your DC? You are now threatening to move away unless you get all you want. For the sake of the children, you should stay reasonably close to their dad. He might be ok with everything in your favour but I think you need to think of your children, not just yourself.

@TizerorFizz

The reality is that financially we just can't afford to stay in this area if he gets more than a 50/50 split. That's not being mean that's just the reality - I can't and won't sugar coat it

He can afford a 2 bed on 50/50 - lots of families have siblings who share a room

Depends on the size of the room and age of children. Also sexes of children.

@TizerorFizz

2 are twins and the other is 2 years older - 2 of the same sex. All under 6.

DH could quite easily take on additional work or change companies to increase his income - he's actually very lowly paid for what he does and competitors earn over £10k more per year but he's never been ambitious

I'd even be happy for him to relocate with us as he could transfer within the company

He won't though. He wants a divorce because he is struggling with family life and the demands of 3 young children.

It's tragic really. I don't want to divorce. Ive offered all the support under the sun - and I already do far more with the kids and household stuff than he does.

Of course two children can share a bedroom, but that also holds true for your home with them. As far as possible the courts will want you to have equivalent housing situations.

How many bedrooms in the current property. It sounds to me like if he takes 70-80% of the equity, you're both not a million miles from getting something similar.

As you have the higher mortgage capability, the most likely outcome is that he will get a higher proportion of equity to enable him to get a suitable home for the kids.

Threatening to move 200 miles away if you don't get to keep the house is not fair on your children, and he could challenge in court. I find it hard to believe you'd need to move that far to find a suitable property.

Equality of income in retirement is standard, and as I mentioned, CMS agreements only last a year. So any lawyer worth his or her salt will tell him not to do that deal.

If you don't want him to touch your pension, be prepared to offer something else (cash savings, investments, more home equity).

His shift pattern doesn't mean he can't have more contact - as long as he sorts childcare. But it sounds like you don't think he will want that. The good news is the maintenance should help with childcare costs.

Your situation is unusual as it is more common for women to be the lower earners in a marriage. But all those cases help demonstrate the kind of deal he can and should be looking at.

It may be that he's better off buying you out of the house rather than the other way around, given the likely equity split. But if you don't want that, then I expect the house will be sold.

Sorry - I meant child maintenance agreements only last a year at which point either party can revert to CMS

@OnceUponAThread

The issue is that even with my salary and him getting 70% equity neither of us can afford homes in this area

what childcare do you know that starts at 430am?

@OnceUponAThread
There are 3 children. Not 2.

@isthistheendtakeabreath So to some extent he’s a bit lazy but works unsocial hours. Maybe he’s struggling with the hours and the children? That’s not unusual. Have you thought about counselling? Divorce is a somewhat nuclear option for all of you, snd very much for the children. You seem somewhat detached from their needs. They are best served by having a dad around.

@TizerorFizz

Possibly but he finds time to go to the gym every day for 2 hours over dinner/bath/bed time.

Yes I'd do counselling absolutely. I don't think he will though. He's been very dismissive of counselling before

I'm not detached from their needs although perhaps my posts suggest that. I'm just really struggling I suppose over what's happened and conflicted about my feelings towards him and how to articulate it all. Our twins are only 1 - he's very detached from them himself, he does find parenting them an obvious struggle. I just feel so upset for them as it's clear the Twins are the catalyst for this - he asks after our eldest but doesn't mention the babies. They are IVF babies and we went through horrendous trauma TTC. But his stomping around the house, general detachment, moodiness and unhappiness and being short tempered with them is becoming very obvious. Heartbreaking really.
I'd say in the last 6 months he maybe sees the twins 10 mins a day inbetween me getting them from childcare and then him disappearing to the gym. If we were just talking about their needs it's like I'm a single parent already. I'd love him to be around more but he's made it clear that he puts himself and how he wants to spend his time first. I can't live in this area with no emotional or physical support and 3 young children

But I do appreciate everyone's perspectives x

@TizerorFizz - I know. But op said that ex could have a smaller house as two of the children could share (two are same sex). I was simply pointing out that the same applies to her housing situation.

Courts will focus on the childrens needs. If there is enough money for both parents to buy and appropriate house then great, but if there is not then rental is deemed acceptable.

If funds have to be shared unevenly they tend to fall where children will reside more of the time and it sounds like that will be with the OP in this case.

You can't exchange future CMS for a chunk of capital/pension because it won't be binding. He would be daft to accept it snd any lawyer would advice against it.

Can you afford to buy him out? What's the maximum equity you can afford to give him and cover with a mortgage? He may want extra equity in lieu of not taking a pension split. You need a valuation to establish both pension values - this is not the same as the amount in the pot, it isn't treated like cash/equity.

You sound like you don't want to ask for cms, you'll need it to pay towards child care, uniforms etc. it isn't a huge % of pay so it's not an unreasonable expectation that the non resident parent contributes towards costs for the children

@HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow

Yes the pensions bit confuses me - i know I have £45k in one pot - the one accrued during marriage - so it's whether that just gets split £22.5 each?

I suppose when it comes to CMS I can't see how on £1600 a month salary he can afford a mortgage or rent and the associated bills and then also pay £300 a month CMS

I want him to be able to "live" so that's why I thought I'd give up CMS in exchange for not claiming pension - 17 years at £300 a month is surely going to be worth more than the pension I accrued during our marriage? (and remember also does have his own workplace pension)

I think I'm just in planning mode trying to figure out what the future looks like

Max equity I can afford to give him is 50% and even then that wouldn't be until the twins hit 30 hours so he may have to accept renting until that can happen

If he doesn't accept renting and wants the equity we'd have to move and at least 30-40 mins away - to an area we don't know with no one. I have family about 1hr 40 mins away in an area which is much cheaper

Like I said he could come with us if he wanted to

If he doesn't accept renting and wants the equity we'd have to move and at least 30-40 mins away - to an area we don't know with no one. I have family about 1hr 40 mins away in an area which is much cheaper

So you don't want yo move out of the area, but exoecting him to.