Can grandparents hire private investigators to find out about their grandchildren?

[Feliciacat]

Hi there,

I’m ttc and do not plan to involve my parents at all in my life so I’m not planning to tell them about any children I have. Whilst this may seem harsh, the decision comes after years of belittling and controlling behaviour. I wish I could have a relationship with them but that would require them to be different people.

I know that grandparents have no automatic rights. However, I am aware that they can ask for visitation if they can prove they have a relationship with their grandchildren. If they never meet them then they’ll never be able to make this argument.

However, could they hire a private investigator to get information on my life and the details of any children I have? They are wealthy and they really are unhinged so I believe this is something they would do. Then could they show up at my kid/s school or lie to a court and say they had a relationship with the kid/s?

I want to enjoy this stage of my life but I’m catastrophising about what they might do. My mother likes to ‘win’ at all costs so I imagine she’d be livid if she knew she wasn’t involved in ‘her grandchildren’s’ lives. Hell hath no fury like her scorned. I feel like I could always be looking over my shoulder. Does anyone have any advice please?

Which one? Neither is illegal, so both are allowed.

@FemmeNatal to be fair, you’re right that they can try anything they like! I’m just going to try and protect my information as much as possible so that they won’t have as much chance of success.

Get some more counselling and do it via your doctor and make sure they note down what it is you are worried about and why. Tell them all about your childhood abuse, as much as possible.

As soon as you are expecting then you need to tell them as well, so it is on your maternity notes. You don't want them to be let into the hospital when you have a newborn.

Basically, tell as many people as you can now. Then you will have proof in years to come.

In this world of modern tech they would have absolutely no proof of any relationship though would they? Not a photo. Or a video.. Or any ft chats. No fb photos. Diddly squat.
I am nc with my dps. On school forms I tick the no social media or newspaper on any photo permissions... Df has no idea how many dc I have. Been 20 years now.

In England the grandparents would have to apply to the courts for permission to seek grandparents rights. Whilst there have been a reasonable number of grandparents given permission to apply to the courts none as far as I can see (I'm not a lawyer) have succeeded.

In order to be able to apply they would need to be able to show they had regular contact with the children and that the children would loose a significant connection by not continuing having a relationship with the grandparents. Clearly if they have never met the kids they won't be able to prove this. Court will ask the kids if appropriate! Or look for things like photos of them regularly holding the baby....

When the kids get to nursery or school then you give the staff the names of people allowed to collect them. If you fear at that stage your parents are milling around you can specifically identify them to school to block access.

Whilst I can see why you're bothered by this you need to make peace with it rather than looking over your shoulder constantly.

@gingersplodgecat that's a really good idea. I’ve only had private counselling so far but NHS would go on my record and be more useful in the future.

@Littlebirdyouaresosweet thats really good to know and is great advice about the no pictures at school thing!

@LittleOwl153 you’re right. I mean, I started this thread because I wanted to straighten things out so I could just be happy and excited about this next chapter of my life. My folks are my only problem. Apart from this, I’m really looking forward to parenthood.

I've done a bit of reading around on this subject as I'm estranged from my mother.

From what I could find, whilst there is a lot written online about so called "grandparents rights" the reality is that the court would only actually give contact rights to grandparents in a few very specific cases.

Eg. When a parent has died and the surviving parents is obstructing the grandparents on the deceased side of the family from maintaining a relationship.

In your situation OP I think you have very little to fear.

OP, to add to all the good advice you’ve got, when you do have DC, get your will in order straight away, putting in place the arrangements for guardianship of your DC should anything happen to you and your DH. It’s all highly unlikely to happen but it sounds like you will need the peace of mind, knowing there are watertight arrangements in place meaning your DC would be raised by people chosen by you and your DH. You can stipulate no contact with the GPS and ensure you choose executors who are independent from family and can be relied on to carry out your wishes and understand your rationale.

@Cyw2018 thank you so much. I’m sorry to hear about your situation but hopefully you’re doing well.

@Ohmybod yes, currently I only have a basic will but this will definitely get updated. I’m making a list based on this thread. It’s very helpful to have so much advice. Thank you so much.

I think you said it already, you're catasrophising.

Honestly, like a previous poster said, they can hire all the PIs they like but it won't prove they already have a relationship with the the children. And the bar for allowing grandparents access to children is incredibly high. There's no way a court would be fooled by simply knowing the kids school, or the fact they do ballet on Wednesday at 7pm is enough (I mean, you'd just get the ballet teacher to tell the truth that they've never laid eyes on the grandparents!).

Just keep a low profile, don't post pics of the kids anywhere and forget about them. Even if they try some batshit stunts, the courts know what batshit stunts look like!

Theres no automatic rights for gps anyway so taking it to court would probably pointless if they never met any GC

i wouldnt want tobe anywhere near them but thats just me-do they still harrass you alot

The link with your siblings is your weak link or any other family. I throw no personal documentation out - I burn the lot and anything with my address

I agree with this, I'm afraid. You will always find siblings who go back to their parents and feed them with information in order to be loved.

Yes they can hire PIs, or even a whole fleet of PIs.

Yes they can try to fool the court into ordering contact. But they have little or no chance of succeeding.

Some ideas:
Give your children a first name and middle name but use the middle name only.
No photos of your children on SM.
Make sure nursery and schools are aware of the situation, and instruct not to release the children to your parents under any circumstances, regardless of any sob story or 'emergency'.
No photos of your children or references to them to appear in school brochures, photos online of class activities, sports, school trips, drama, choir etc. Same goes for sports or other extra curriculars.

Grandparents would have to prove a very strong existing relationship to be given any rights. Usually this would mean grandparents providing substantial care to children (not just a couple of days a week). I guess they could hire a PI and might find out that they have grandchildren. They wouldn't be able to use that information to gain access to the children though.

When I told my solicitor my exs parents were threatening to take me to court for access, he laughed. They saw them once per week for a couple of hours and probably a couple of times a year watched them for an hour. It was not enough evidence to prove a substantial relationship. It's very hard to even get permission to apply to court. Its been a few years and I haven't heard a peep since I told them to go for it.

If they hire a PI, it would be pointless really. Theyre not going to get any information from a nursery/school. The most they would find out is how many children and maybe their names/dates of birth if they are lucky. Let them crack on and live your life.

@JuneOsborne yes you are right there.

@whynotwhatknot to be fair, they don’t harass me a lot at the moment but I feel like they would if ‘their grandkids’ were involved.

@Dominuse @HollowTalk I do agree. My sister is estranged from the entire family including me because she can’t bear the thought of anything getting back to my Mum. The only sibling I have much contact with is one of my brothers who is also completely estranged. But it’s true that maybe he could well-meaningly tell them things.

@mathanxiety those are amazing tips!

@CatSeany @Steelesauce this is really reassuring. I appreciate it :)

Thank you so much to all of you for taking the time to reply to me. It has all been really helpful. What a great forum xx

@Feliciacat we have similar to this situation ... Controlling, undermining, belittling etc... Grandparent decided to become a volunteer for the school (I am being a bit vague -happy to pm if you want- but there are several roles they use volunteers for if they have a DBs). We had to write to school saying the school have the care of our child loco parentis and that individual must not have contact with our DC. The school had meetings with us and grandparent separately to see if they could keep gp but ultimately they couldn't guarantee they wouldn't see each other so go could not do the role. Gp was furious as they thought they had outsmarted us and would be seeing our DC whether we liked it or not.

What I am trying to say is write to school who is not allowed contact just in case go try a sneaky way of getting contact. I have also read on here ages ago about a go getting a job as a dinner lady with the same intention .

Every school and sports club we write to specify DC cannot be on websites or brochures etc so hopefully gp don't turn up to matches etc

Gp (not go)

Hey @Sproglette. That sounds really stressful for you but good on you for being a step ahead of them. It seems there are several people on here including yourself with similar situations who are well into parenthood and have already navigated a lot of situations I was concerned about. So thank you for your input.

Hi OP,

I'm no contact with my lunatic Mother.

I am moving so she doesn't have my address and have told my kids schools that she is not to be allowed near them.

She did have a relationship with them for the first few years but if she tried to have contact with them now, I would get a restraining order on her.

You will be fine. Good luck ttc!

Thank you so much @Minimalme! I’m glad to be entering this community! Good luck with your move!

This sums up the situation clearly and concisely.

In my experience I’ve known a couple of grandparents succeed in their application but in those cases there has been very good reason (significant enduring relationship, child actively expressing a wish to see them, or in one case being a link to the child’s deceased mother). I cannot imagine for a moment the court would entertain an application from your parents in the circumstances, and if they’ve been using a PI to dig up information it won’t make them look good at all.