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Original poster

Mum stating she will break court order

99 replies

Sayitaintsoiwillnotgo · 31/05/2022 15:35

Hello

Just need some advice. Will try and keep to facts and remove any emotion.

DSS mum is getting increasingly difficult to deal with re: arrangements of shared care. Court order has been in place over 2 years. Is DSS half term with DP, then return to usual arrangments so with DP until Tue morn. I do school drop offs Tue to breakfast club. Mum is stating due to not seeing her son for a week they will miss each other so she is collecting him from school Monday despite court order to contrary and DP not agreeing. She states he has educational anxiety and displays very poor behaviour towards attending school at her home and she needs to settle him on Monday. DSS does not display same behaviour here and has said he doesnt but doesnt know why that is.

What should DP do? He has replied saying he wants to stick to order as thinks it is DSS best interest to maintain his known routine. She does not agree.

Week of worry ahead!

OP posts:
roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:17

@Catfordthefifth that's because more often than not the mother is the primary care giver. My partner is a fantastic father but he has spent many nights away from our child - work commitments, visiting friends etc. DS is totally fine not seeing him for a few days. He's spent one unavoidable night away from me (I breastfed and continue to do so at 19 months once a day) and he absolutely isn't ok with being away from me for prolonged time, I'm his constan. However - the child in question here is 10, so this is a bit different.

It's not poor-menz-sexist to suggest children need to be with their mothers regularly in a way they don't need their fathers at some points in their lives. When I posted earlier it was unclear that the child is 10 not 2

Catfordthefifth · 31/05/2022 18:17

Swayingpalmtrees · 31/05/2022 18:14

cat You are reading way too much into my reply.

If the father looks after the child most of the time, of course that will be considered. If he is working away for three quarters of the year and the child barely remembers him, that will also count. So too the set up, location and distance etc.

To be clear, plenty of parents find themselves in difficulty and come back to court for variations to the order, it can be a long wait especially now, so of course it is far better to be able to organise arrangements between themselves if they can in the meantime. A cooperative adult approach always works best for everyone, especially the child.

That's not what I asked, is it?

You don't think this court order is appropriate, but you think that they consider how often the child had "contact" with the dad before. If this is so carefully considered why is it not ok?

I didn't read into anything, it's explicitly clear what you think.

Of course having a cooperative co parenting relationship is best, why the fuck do you think they got a court order? Do you think it was for the laugh? Or because mum wouldn't agree to contact?

Because that's why most NRPs get court orders isn't it? Because the can't get the agreement of the parent with the power.

I'm not sure anyone really wants to have to get a court order to see their own child. I imagine it's not very nice to be in that position. Have you ever considered that or?

RosieRooster83 · 31/05/2022 18:18

Skeptadad · 31/05/2022 18:16

Usual double standards implying dads don't have feelings and mothers are the omnipotent ones. I have never seen any academic research/papers which suggests dads find this any less difficult. Why should dad who is having less time lose a day and pass a child back to a mum who is having more time. Doesn't make any sense.

Don't stray from the court order as it will get chipped away at over time.

Completely agree. I would stick to the order as dad doesn't get anywhere near as much time as the mum anyway and the child seems fairly settled at dads from what the OP describes.

Swayingpalmtrees · 31/05/2022 18:19

I also think if a child has anxiety, then huge amounts of time away will only increase the problem. Is he having counselling and treatment?

You would be far better focusing on his needs op. Your dp needs to work with the child's mother to try and work on his anxiety, school refusal etc - he is going to need both parents to help him through this.

roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:20

@Catfordthefifth or because the dad was unreasonable / an abusive partner / cheated in a way that emotionally damaged the mother / kept changing the goal posts, and consequently the mother felt unable to manage custody without court intervention.

I didn't say the CO was ins

Catfordthefifth · 31/05/2022 18:20

roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:17

@Catfordthefifth that's because more often than not the mother is the primary care giver. My partner is a fantastic father but he has spent many nights away from our child - work commitments, visiting friends etc. DS is totally fine not seeing him for a few days. He's spent one unavoidable night away from me (I breastfed and continue to do so at 19 months once a day) and he absolutely isn't ok with being away from me for prolonged time, I'm his constan. However - the child in question here is 10, so this is a bit different.

It's not poor-menz-sexist to suggest children need to be with their mothers regularly in a way they don't need their fathers at some points in their lives. When I posted earlier it was unclear that the child is 10 not 2

The child is 10, op has expressed he is absolutely fine. He is not a breastfed toddler so why you felt you needed to make that comparison is beyond me.

Why does he need his mum more? Do you know this child? Or are you basing it on how you feel about your own actual baby?

You don't seem to have any opinion other than mum is more important which is really ignorant and small minded.

40andlols · 31/05/2022 18:21

you can live with both parents and still have way more time with one of them.

There are lots of times where mum was a stay at home or part time working parent, dad worked long hours or worked away, but when they split 50/50 contact is granted. Contact with dad may be facilitated by breakfast clubs/ new wife/ his mum or whatever. It doesn't always mean he's actually doing the 50/50

roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:21

**inappropriate, I don't know what's in it or the background, I just think if it was ten days away from the mother that's too long for a young child. At 10, less so, but if the mother is asking and it's not that big a deal, why not be flexible.

Catfordthefifth · 31/05/2022 18:22

roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:20

@Catfordthefifth or because the dad was unreasonable / an abusive partner / cheated in a way that emotionally damaged the mother / kept changing the goal posts, and consequently the mother felt unable to manage custody without court intervention.

I didn't say the CO was ins

Well yes, but getting a court order to enable you to see your child isn't abusive is it?

Btw being cheated on isn't a good enough reason to stop contact.

RosieRooster83 · 31/05/2022 18:22

roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:21

**inappropriate, I don't know what's in it or the background, I just think if it was ten days away from the mother that's too long for a young child. At 10, less so, but if the mother is asking and it's not that big a deal, why not be flexible.

Because the dad might want his full time with his child just like the mum would.

Catfordthefifth · 31/05/2022 18:22

roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:21

**inappropriate, I don't know what's in it or the background, I just think if it was ten days away from the mother that's too long for a young child. At 10, less so, but if the mother is asking and it's not that big a deal, why not be flexible.

Because it is about the child. Not her. What does HE want?

roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:24

@Catfordthefifth of course not, I didn't say it is, but if someone cheats, gaslights you etc, it's not unreasonable to want to go through a court to establish contact because you don't trust the other person and can't deal with them one on one.

None of this is relevant - the kid is 10, not 2. I still think being flexible is usually the best solution.

Catfordthefifth · 31/05/2022 18:25

roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:24

@Catfordthefifth of course not, I didn't say it is, but if someone cheats, gaslights you etc, it's not unreasonable to want to go through a court to establish contact because you don't trust the other person and can't deal with them one on one.

None of this is relevant - the kid is 10, not 2. I still think being flexible is usually the best solution.

Well yes anyone can get a court order.

I'm sure you wouldn't be saying it if dad wanted an extra day though, it clearly doesn't work both ways does it?

roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:26

If he's been with them for a week and the child would like to see his mother, it would be selfish of the OP/father to not allow some flexibility. But as you say, no one has asked the child - and it's hard to do so without putting him in a difficult place, worrying about upsetting dad.

As it happens, it will have been 7 not 10 days and it's not a young child so yeah, all I said before is irrelevant.

Catfordthefifth · 31/05/2022 18:26

roarfeckingroarr · 31/05/2022 18:26

If he's been with them for a week and the child would like to see his mother, it would be selfish of the OP/father to not allow some flexibility. But as you say, no one has asked the child - and it's hard to do so without putting him in a difficult place, worrying about upsetting dad.

As it happens, it will have been 7 not 10 days and it's not a young child so yeah, all I said before is irrelevant.

I'm glad you can see you've been absolutely ridiculous.

40andlols · 31/05/2022 18:26

@Catfordthefifth needing a court order doesn't necessarily mean mum was uncooperative. It means she didn't agree to what dad wanted.

we have no idea if she was being unreasonable or not because we don't know enough.

I don't agree a 10 year old should be asked what they want unless you're 100% sure they won't fawn for the parent who asks the question. ideally the adults would make the best decision in the child's best interest

Catfordthefifth · 31/05/2022 18:30

40andlols · 31/05/2022 18:26

@Catfordthefifth needing a court order doesn't necessarily mean mum was uncooperative. It means she didn't agree to what dad wanted.

we have no idea if she was being unreasonable or not because we don't know enough.

I don't agree a 10 year old should be asked what they want unless you're 100% sure they won't fawn for the parent who asks the question. ideally the adults would make the best decision in the child's best interest

Well if it's not up to the child, the decision has already been made, hence the court order. If mum doesn't like it perhaps she should go back to court?

It sounds like there is a whole back story here, because like I say you don't get A court order if you don't need to. It's not exactly a pleasant experience is it?

40andlols · 31/05/2022 18:36

No definitely not. But we don't know who was being unreasonable and what lead to that happening. If it was dad being unreasonable then chances are he's being unreasonable about this monday business.

we just don't know. but the fact is court will do nothing about one breaking of the order in such a small way.

40andlols · 31/05/2022 18:37

Plus, it's been in place 2 years. The child's needs may have changed and you can't go back to court every time that happens. I know there's a lot of school anxiety now that didn't exist 2 years ago

Original poster
Sayitaintsoiwillnotgo · 31/05/2022 18:38

There is a very long and almost unbelievable backstory if you hadn't lived it you wouldn't believe, but involves false allegations to SS and police (documented as malicious by both), parental alienation and prior to their split several police reports and a caution to her over her abuse of DP. DSS has regularly been used as a weapon and flexibility has only ever been at her demands and as such DP can no longer be flexible as its one sided and not in DSS best interests who like all children wants stability and to know whats going on. Of course DP has not discussed any of this with DSS as that would also be inappropriate.

OP posts:
Catfordthefifth · 31/05/2022 18:38

40andlols · 31/05/2022 18:36

No definitely not. But we don't know who was being unreasonable and what lead to that happening. If it was dad being unreasonable then chances are he's being unreasonable about this monday business.

we just don't know. but the fact is court will do nothing about one breaking of the order in such a small way.

It is not unreasonable to follow a court order.

No, court won't do anything which is why so many shit parents get away with stopping / reducing / fucking about with contact.

RosieRooster83 · 31/05/2022 18:39

Sayitaintsoiwillnotgo · 31/05/2022 18:38

There is a very long and almost unbelievable backstory if you hadn't lived it you wouldn't believe, but involves false allegations to SS and police (documented as malicious by both), parental alienation and prior to their split several police reports and a caution to her over her abuse of DP. DSS has regularly been used as a weapon and flexibility has only ever been at her demands and as such DP can no longer be flexible as its one sided and not in DSS best interests who like all children wants stability and to know whats going on. Of course DP has not discussed any of this with DSS as that would also be inappropriate.

Oh goodness, sounds like what we are going through for the past 7 years with my DSS and his mum. In that case I would recommend that your partner doesn't deviate from the order at all.

40andlols · 31/05/2022 18:43

Sayitaintsoiwillnotgo · 31/05/2022 18:38

There is a very long and almost unbelievable backstory if you hadn't lived it you wouldn't believe, but involves false allegations to SS and police (documented as malicious by both), parental alienation and prior to their split several police reports and a caution to her over her abuse of DP. DSS has regularly been used as a weapon and flexibility has only ever been at her demands and as such DP can no longer be flexible as its one sided and not in DSS best interests who like all children wants stability and to know whats going on. Of course DP has not discussed any of this with DSS as that would also be inappropriate.

ah okay so definitely don't ask the kid what he wants then, he is probably traumatised from the alienation etc.

i don't think your husband can do much but disagree, then if she insists, keep a log for future. i mean, what else can he do? turn up and wrestle for him?

Hutchy16 · 31/05/2022 19:18

I am getting a bad feeling from your post, I know it probably isn’t intentional, and that there is likely a lot more going on, but it seems like you don’t want to be helpful with DSS mum.

legally you probably are in the right to refuse her, but honestly…do you want to be that person. For the sake of one day, letting her pick him up means you DSS will not have any drama, less anxiety, he doesn’t need to see or have any awareness of issues between both families.

personally, I think that although you asked for legal advice you should consider previous poster’s comments about it being a very long time to be away from your child (because it is)

additionally…who asks mumsnet for legal advice…speak to a professional

Catfordthefifth · 31/05/2022 19:19

Hutchy16 · 31/05/2022 19:18

I am getting a bad feeling from your post, I know it probably isn’t intentional, and that there is likely a lot more going on, but it seems like you don’t want to be helpful with DSS mum.

legally you probably are in the right to refuse her, but honestly…do you want to be that person. For the sake of one day, letting her pick him up means you DSS will not have any drama, less anxiety, he doesn’t need to see or have any awareness of issues between both families.

personally, I think that although you asked for legal advice you should consider previous poster’s comments about it being a very long time to be away from your child (because it is)

additionally…who asks mumsnet for legal advice…speak to a professional

Maybe you should RTFT.