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Original poster

Neighbours want to adjust exterior of our property

357 replies

leavethewallalone · 26/04/2022 08:17

We have lived in our house for coming up 8 years now. 2 years ago new people moved in next door just before lockdown. We don't have much to do with them other than saying hi when they moved in and taking in parcels for them but they seem ok.

We live in terraced houses but each house has a single storey bit at the back that is detached. They're a kind of weird shape in how they are built because they are 70 years old, think a kind of wonky L shape. The wall of our extended bit sits very close to the boundary and as a result there is some overhang of soffits. This has always been the case and some of the neighbouring properties are the same.

Last week we had a planning letter come through our door. They plan to extend their little detached bit in both directions up to the boundary (single storey). I'm a bit shocked that they didn't speak to us before putting in planning permission, I know you don't have to but a heads up would have been good.
We popped round just to ask what their plans were, how long they thought the work might take as we both WFH so this would really impact us. It would also means gardens were not secure for a time period and we have children and a dog so this wouldn't be ideal, but is what it is. They talked us through their plans and I pointed out that the work they needed to do would mean altering our property as our exterior is currently in the way of where they want theirs to go. They just said "yes" without anything else. I tried to remain polite and asked why they hadn't spoken to us about this before putting in planning permission as this was not just proposed work to their property, but now ours. They shrugged and said ours shouldn't be built the way it is but they'd cover the cost for us. I pointed out that every property here is like it and if they wanted to extend they probably shouldn't have moved in to a house where there are boundary issues that have been known for 70 years.

We've had some back and forth with them offering nothing in the way of a you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours agreement, and just feel that we should let them do it. I've now said absolutely not.

I've spoken to the old neighbours who we are still in touch with and asked if they ever had any problems with the boundary. They said no but they did have to take out insurance that covered this in case our property ever damaged their garden etc. We have had to do the same because we have the same on the other side so this make sense.

I've gone through the deeds and any paperwork that I have regarding disputes, I even have really old building documents. No issues raised at any point in 70 years of this house being as it is.

AIBU or should neighbours move elsewhere if they're desperate to extend?

The house on the other side of them is empty so I have no idea what they're doing about that side.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Stoppedsmokingnowgrumpy · 26/04/2022 10:26

k1233 · 26/04/2022 10:17

If the property has been crossing the boundary for 70 years, when does a right of way / easement etc occur? It might be worth a chat with a solicitor on what rights you have to maintain the status quo of property overhang.

Agree. In legal terms the neighbours own that space above their land and the op has no right to that space. Where I am unsure is as it’s been 70 years has the neighbours lost all rights to the space and the op now owns it, or does this never occur and rhe op will legally have to vacate and give them the space back

she needs legal advice urgently becayse this is no where near as simple as she says no and that’s it. It’s highly likely it’s going to be she says no and then she finds herself being legally forced to do ghr work herself. As such, she should only say no if she is sure that she now owns that space above their land.

FannyCann · 26/04/2022 10:27

Check your household insurance for legal cover.
You have the makings of a full blown boundary dispute.
Meanwhile contact the planning dept with your objection.

FannyCann · 26/04/2022 10:27

Check your household insurance for legal cover.
You have the makings of a full blown boundary dispute.
Meanwhile contact the planning dept with your objection.

L1ttledrummergirl · 26/04/2022 10:27

Sorry for the multiple posts, mumsnet server playing up apparently.

MikeWozniaksMohawk · 26/04/2022 10:27

@leavethewallalone you said that you have been considering extending out at first floor level. This sounds like the ideal time to do that work - at the same time your neighbours are going to pay for alterations to your roof. Surely you could come to an agreement that they pay for the changes to your roof while you build out? Could save you a chunk of money if you coordinate with them rather than fighting this.

BadNomad · 26/04/2022 10:33

I'd be careful about getting into a dispute with them. Surely, if your property is crossing the boundary into theirs, they can insist you rectify this at your expense?

milkyaqua · 26/04/2022 10:33

They're not. The OP's property extends over their property.

And yet...it is the OP's property. They want to slice into the OP's eaves. The existing buildings are shaped in such a way, and their plans encroach upon the existing roof, etc.

I find it bizarre. Party wall agreements usually require both parties to agree. They don't sound like agreeable people, anyway, and are behaving in the usual entitled manner that is now the norm, aka like fuckwits. Our plans will chomp into your roof, what is your problem.

CheeseCakeSunflowers · 26/04/2022 10:34

You may find this interesting www.lyonsdavidson.co.uk/can-homeowners-overhanging-eaves-gutters/

gottomakeithappen · 26/04/2022 10:38

I would ensure that this amendment to your property does not happen, there are implications here for your property value, the extension potential of your property, your title deeds needing updated. I would really push back and make a noise, if you make enough noise i have seen planners come out to view the property prior to a decision being made. Maybe worth contacting your local councillor.

gottomakeithappen · 26/04/2022 10:38

I would ensure that this amendment to your property does not happen, there are implications here for your property value, the extension potential of your property, your title deeds needing updated. I would really push back and make a noise, if you make enough noise i have seen planners come out to view the property prior to a decision being made. Maybe worth contacting your local councillor.

MikeWozniaksMohawk · 26/04/2022 10:40

@leavethewallalone you said that you have been considering extending out at first floor level. This sounds like the ideal time to do that work - at the same time your neighbours are going to pay for alterations to your roof. Surely you could come to an agreement that they pay for the changes to your roof while you build out? Could save you a chunk of money if you coordinate with them rather than fighting this.

dexterslockedintheshedagain · 26/04/2022 10:40

It's the sheer arrogance of it that gets me - "we want to do this, we're going to do it, you can just shut up and agree".
That'd get my back up too.

dexterslockedintheshedagain · 26/04/2022 10:40

It's the sheer arrogance of it that gets me - "we want to do this, we're going to do it, you can just shut up and agree".
That'd get my back up too.

dexterslockedintheshedagain · 26/04/2022 10:40

It's the sheer arrogance of it that gets me - "we want to do this, we're going to do it, you can just shut up and agree".
That'd get my back up too.

Kennykenkencat · 26/04/2022 10:40

I have seen terraced houses built in a certain area (Never seen this type of design before) They were built as council properties and I presume at the time it wasn’t ever thought of that the houses would ever be sold to individual residents who would then have extensions.

The gardens don’t match the houses.
A bit difficult to explain if you haven’t seen it and you think something has gone very wrong but they were indeed built like that.

I.E when you stand in the back garden and look at the boundary fences of a normal terrace house the fences/boundaries will meet the wall at the point of the dividing wall between the houses on either side.
In these properties the fence/boundary on the left hand side will meet the wall of the house 1.5 metres past the divide between the two houses so it looks like you have encroached into your neighbours property by 1.5 metres but then on the left hand side the fence/boundary is 1.5 metres across your dividing wall.
The house I looked at had an extension which was built by the neighbours on the right hand side who had the boundary that “encroached” past the dividing wall.

Maybe not to the extent of 1.5 metres but is this the type of thing you mean.

The front gardens were perfectly in line but the back gardens by the drawings on the deeds was at a dog leg to the properties.

Are you in this type of situation and the way the properties have been built or the extension has been built, are they looking to bring the party wall to inline with the dividing wall.

One of my concerns would be that it is fine if they are planning to use your party wall but given your extension was built 70 years ago and will have shallower foundations then the “movement” of the houses won’t be in sync and one or both houses could bend up with cracking

FlowersforEveryone · 26/04/2022 10:42

This reply has been withdrawn

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FlowersforEveryone · 26/04/2022 10:42

This reply has been withdrawn

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SpidersareTapdancing · 26/04/2022 10:42

Do you have permission to 'overhang' into their garden?

Ridiculous.

SpidersareTapdancing · 26/04/2022 10:42

Do you have permission to 'overhang' into their garden?

Ridiculous.

prescribingmum · 26/04/2022 10:44

As you have found, planning does not deal with this. Ultimately your property is on their land so you would need to get specialist legal advice to establish what rights you do and don't have with regards to them commencing work. You could end up making life very difficult and expensive for them (and you for the legal advice)

From your posts, you sound quite petulant and caught up on the fact they did not consult you first. Of course it would have been nice to (our neighbours and we consulted each other before we did major work but we are on friendly terms), but planning is there for exactly that reason. As long as they were not going to start altering the wall without speaking to you (which it certainly does not sound like they were), they haven't done anything wrong. You sound very entitled expecting them to incur additional expenses in replacing fences etc for your inconvenience - part of life on roads where houses are semis/terraced involves the inconvenience of neighbours' building work. You are not the only person who wfh and has children whilst this is happening.

A good neighbour will ensure that party wall processes are followed, complete the work to your property to a good standard and ask your opinion on how you would like it done and make good for any damage that maybe done along the way. We did all this and had neighbours' windows cleaned at our expense, offered them use of skip for clear ups and purchased a hamper, flowers and wine for them at the end. They did similar for us when they did work. I would not have gone out of my way had they been difficult and expected other work at our expense for inconvenience.

prescribingmum · 26/04/2022 10:44

As you have found, planning does not deal with this. Ultimately your property is on their land so you would need to get specialist legal advice to establish what rights you do and don't have with regards to them commencing work. You could end up making life very difficult and expensive for them (and you for the legal advice)

From your posts, you sound quite petulant and caught up on the fact they did not consult you first. Of course it would have been nice to (our neighbours and we consulted each other before we did major work but we are on friendly terms), but planning is there for exactly that reason. As long as they were not going to start altering the wall without speaking to you (which it certainly does not sound like they were), they haven't done anything wrong. You sound very entitled expecting them to incur additional expenses in replacing fences etc for your inconvenience - part of life on roads where houses are semis/terraced involves the inconvenience of neighbours' building work. You are not the only person who wfh and has children whilst this is happening.

A good neighbour will ensure that party wall processes are followed, complete the work to your property to a good standard and ask your opinion on how you would like it done and make good for any damage that maybe done along the way. We did all this and had neighbours' windows cleaned at our expense, offered them use of skip for clear ups and purchased a hamper, flowers and wine for them at the end. They did similar for us when they did work. I would not have gone out of my way had they been difficult and expected other work at our expense for inconvenience.

ImAvingOops · 26/04/2022 10:44

This site is becoming unusable! For the love of god @MNHQ just put it back to how it used to be!

milkyaqua · 26/04/2022 10:45

SpidersareTapdancing · 26/04/2022 10:42

Do you have permission to 'overhang' into their garden?

Ridiculous.

In the OP:

We live in terraced houses but each house has a single storey bit at the back that is detached. They're a kind of weird shape in how they are built because they are 70 years old, think a kind of wonky L shape.

I don't think they need 'permission' for existing, 70 year old builds.

MurmuratingStarling · 26/04/2022 10:46

100% YANBU. Cheeky fuckers. I would oppose this when you get anything in the post from the council. They will ask if you have any objections. (They should do anyway!)

As you say, why buy a house that has boundary issues/overhanging soffitry, and then carp about how it's getting in the way of your extension...?

Muppets.

(Yes I just made up the word soffitry, but it's quite cute don't you think? Grin )

Good luck @leavethewallalone I think the law will be on your side. Flowers

MurmuratingStarling · 26/04/2022 10:46

100% YANBU. Cheeky fuckers. I would oppose this when you get anything in the post from the council. They will ask if you have any objections. (They should do anyway!)

As you say, why buy a house that has boundary issues/overhanging soffitry, and then carp about how it's getting in the way of your extension...?

Muppets.

(Yes I just made up the word soffitry, but it's quite cute don't you think? Grin )

Good luck @leavethewallalone I think the law will be on your side. Flowers