Neighbours want to adjust exterior of our property

[leavethewallalone]

We have lived in our house for coming up 8 years now. 2 years ago new people moved in next door just before lockdown. We don't have much to do with them other than saying hi when they moved in and taking in parcels for them but they seem ok.

We live in terraced houses but each house has a single storey bit at the back that is detached. They're a kind of weird shape in how they are built because they are 70 years old, think a kind of wonky L shape. The wall of our extended bit sits very close to the boundary and as a result there is some overhang of soffits. This has always been the case and some of the neighbouring properties are the same.

Last week we had a planning letter come through our door. They plan to extend their little detached bit in both directions up to the boundary (single storey). I'm a bit shocked that they didn't speak to us before putting in planning permission, I know you don't have to but a heads up would have been good.
We popped round just to ask what their plans were, how long they thought the work might take as we both WFH so this would really impact us. It would also means gardens were not secure for a time period and we have children and a dog so this wouldn't be ideal, but is what it is. They talked us through their plans and I pointed out that the work they needed to do would mean altering our property as our exterior is currently in the way of where they want theirs to go. They just said "yes" without anything else. I tried to remain polite and asked why they hadn't spoken to us about this before putting in planning permission as this was not just proposed work to their property, but now ours. They shrugged and said ours shouldn't be built the way it is but they'd cover the cost for us. I pointed out that every property here is like it and if they wanted to extend they probably shouldn't have moved in to a house where there are boundary issues that have been known for 70 years.

We've had some back and forth with them offering nothing in the way of a you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours agreement, and just feel that we should let them do it. I've now said absolutely not.

I've spoken to the old neighbours who we are still in touch with and asked if they ever had any problems with the boundary. They said no but they did have to take out insurance that covered this in case our property ever damaged their garden etc. We have had to do the same because we have the same on the other side so this make sense.

I've gone through the deeds and any paperwork that I have regarding disputes, I even have really old building documents. No issues raised at any point in 70 years of this house being as it is.

AIBU or should neighbours move elsewhere if they're desperate to extend?

The house on the other side of them is empty so I have no idea what they're doing about that side.

So ask the planning dept what would happen in that neighbours case. How would they resolve that?

I honestly think you’d be mad to make this into a problem. You’ve a problem with your property overhanging with boundary and these people are going to fix it and pay for it. It’s alright saying they shouldn’t have bought that house but they are free to buy what they want. Maybe you shouldn’t have bought a property with a boundary issue and expected it to never be rectified?

is this worth souring relations over? Is it worth having a declare a boundary issue if you ever sell?

Personally I get why you're pissed off and like most people I expect, I would have given you a heads up and tried to find a work-around right from the start for the clash of roofline - but if their development is lawful and they get planning permission you can't actually stop them. FWIW, they may decide instead to build right up to, but not touching, your property. Just be aware this may look messier than a tidy join.
And it DEFINITELY sounds like there needs to be a party wall agreement drawn up which will get your roof repaired at their cost where it abuts their development.
But on the general point regarding them changing things, it's absolutely their right to do so. There have been no disputes in the 70 years previously because no-ones tried to do anything, not because they shouldn't..its not a moral thing. By your logic, we shouldn't have done our loft conversion but looked for a bigger house instead (unaffordable).
BTW, is the terrace ex local authority? That would have slowed the rate of private development generally over the years. An largely council owned estate near me has had a few planning issues WHEN new, private owners wanted to extend/change things in some quite complicated circumstances. It's resulted in some nice architectural solutions though.

I bet there aren't plans or planning permission for the bit that overhangs theirs.

I would leap at their offer to cover the cost of the changes - I'm pretty sure they're planning will get passed so why are you encouraging a fall out?
Call planning and ask what they think - you can do this in my council region.

I don't get why you are so put out.
A neigbour of a friend cut off their water for several days whilst they built their home - the neighbour was a lawyer, knew it would cost more than it was worth to make him legally do anything any quicker.
They can put up temporary fencing eg plastic mesh type, whilst the work is done.

A potential reduction in the value of your property is not a valid reason to object.

How can you be losing so much roof space? If it's 3 ft, surely that's a massive overhang into the next door property?

We need a diagram!

You can formally object to the proposal. You can do that online. Say you object because it will involve work being done to your property and you will not give permission for that.

You seem really annoyed that because no one has disputed it in the past 70 years that they are now doing so, which seems strange. It's obviously your right to object, but I'd take them up on their offer to pay for what is essentially a problem.

The planners won’t care whether it involves your boundary or not, that isn’t their concern. You need to object based on planning principles - this is a good list to look at: iainroberts.mycouncillor.org.uk/2013/02/07/which-objections-can-be-taken-into-account-in-a-planning-application/

I’m trying to imagine how much your house over hangs their land that you would lose 3ft or loft space if it was brought back to your own boundary!

I think expecting them to pay for the replacement of your fence because it is old on top of paying for the work to your roof is too much.
You can object to the planning proposal, it doesn’t sound cut and dry for the work to pass anyway but it seems insane in a way that they can’t extend up to the boundary of their property because of your roof.

I’m trying to imagine how much your house over hangs their land that you would lose 3ft or loft space if it was brought back to your own boundary!

I think expecting them to pay for the replacement of your fence because it is old on top of paying for the work to your roof is too much.
You can object to the planning proposal, it doesn’t sound cut and dry for the work to pass anyway but it seems insane in a way that they can’t extend up to the boundary of their property because of your roof.

Planning is a totally different issue from party wall.

Anyone can apply for and get planning permission for any house / land anywhere, but that doesn’t mean they can actually build it. Because of course they have to own the land or have a party wall agreement to do that.

You need a party wall surveyor. They should pay for it.

Would it be possible to buy the strip of land under your soffits and reset the boundary? And they shift their extension sideways a bit?

To be fair l would like to adjust the exterior of a few of my neighbours properties but that isn’t my right to do. I would continue to document my lack of agreement with the proposed plans. A potential reduction in the value of your property, most definitely is a valid reason to object

Please ask this again in the Legal section

I think we need is diagram to! I would formally object tbh. Our new neighbors recently put in planning to build up to the boundary, we just objected on the grounds that our garden wall is there already and the build would damage it (there was also a shared hedge, however that’s not relevant to your situation) They revised the plans to leave a gap with agreement that we would remove our objections. I don’t see how something can be passed that involves them having to rebuild part of a property that isn’t theirs? However think hard about how much it would really affect you and if it could potentially be an improvement in the long term. Having builders next door is a massive pain but it’s only short lived.

That is not a planning consideration.
The factors that Planning can take into account are tightly stipulated.

OP,

Given how you have described your interactions, and the lack of basic manners to consult with you, I wouldn't entertain such entitled behaviour.

I wouldn't trust anyone who would seriously believe interfering with their neighbours property is no big deal.

I wouldn't allow the appearance to be changed and I would submit a letter confirming the work potentially devaluing your property.

Do not entertain this in any way.

They sound like complete CF's.

Oh take extensive video of your house/garden for your records.

Some years ago a house was sold not far from me and the young couple actually thought they could access the back of the house via their elderly neighbour's gorgeous garden.

It was their architect who knocked on the neighbours door to tell her not to worry they would make good on the damage.

He could not believe when he was told she knew absolutely nothing about it.

Unbelievable.

They actually thought they could reduce the bottom half of the garden next door to rubble for 6 months as they wanted access.

The architect apologise profusely and the woman thanked him for the heads up as to the character of the new neighbours.

Fortunately the houses were detached.
Her son lived nearby and they had the most miserable time building as she tolerated absolutely nothing during the entire build.

They completely brought that grief on themselves.

You have been well warned.

But your property currently overhangs the boundary. That's not OK. Of course your property shouldn't be over the neighbours land!

They are offering to fix a problem that you have, at their cost. I'd bite their hand off. I'd imagine the other way of doing this is that they take you to court, and you will be ordered to rectify it at your own cost.

And the idea that you should benefit from free replacement fences or something is ridiculous. They are already doing you a massive favour, and paying for something that is really your responsibility to fix.

If you don't want the neighbours builders to alter your roof, then you need to employ your own contractor, and pay for your property to be moved back over your land without any overhang.

You sound like CF neighbours, tbh.

Not necessarily after 70 years? I know nothing about the relevant law but I'm wondering whether OP has acquired rights by prescription.

The factors that Planning can take into account are tightly stipulated.

This is what I just don’t understand. That you can get planning for completely illegal builds and unless someone objects through other means (solicitors) people could actually just get away with it? It doesn’t make any sense to me.

I bet there aren't plans or planning permission for the bit that overhangs theirs.

After 70 years, that really doesn't matter.

There should have been more discussion with you absolutely, but you say they shouldn’t have bought a house that has boundary issues if they wanted to extend, I would say you shouldn’t have bought a house with boundary issues and not expected a problem could arise. Your property crosses onto their boundary, they have the legal right to get that part of the property removed and I don’t blame them because if it means you’re going to lose 3ft of roof space it must be considerably over their boundary.

You bought this property knowing that so I don’t think you can really complain that they want to rectify the problem at their cost.

Weird perception of the law. Of course it's OK if the overhang has been there for 70 years and the neighbours bought in full knowledge of it. The likelihood is that their own property overhangs on the other side. If they took OP to court in those circumstances they would end up paying both her costs and their own, and give the judge a bit of a laugh into the bargain.

The idea that the neighbours' builder can arbitrarily alter someone else's roof without permission would REALLY be in CF territory.

Is the part of your house that overhangs an extension or was it originally built that way?

Please can we have a diagram?

We had to leave a gap between our extension and next door (which was a pain as they had built up to the boundary) so I am totally confused.