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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Original poster

Contesting probate

79 replies

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 12:07

Hopefully I can explain this enough that someone could give some advice. We are seeking legal advice too but it would be good to get perspective on it from a few people who don't know me and won't just take "our side" on it.

My mother in law passed away last May and it turned out she did not have a will.
The house she owns is in her name only. My husband has 2 brothers so it was assumed that her whole estate would just automatically go to them equally.

Her partner of 18 years lived with her (part time for the first 10 years or so then fully in more recent years) but also owned his own property nearby which he still owns.
The day my MIL died her partner told my husband the house was in her name because he bought it for her and wanted her to have security.

Her partner is now making a claim for her property, telling us he bought the house with the intention to live there together and believes the property should fully be given to him. From information we have found we know that the property was bought in 2003 under the "right to buy" scheme so because it was my mother in laws house they had to put the property in her name only. Her discount was 38% of the price of the property. They have never changed the deeds to include him and she made no indication to us that she was going to do that.
Before he put his claim in my husband had a conversation with him and his brothers where he suggested they include her partner to all get an equal share but this was rejected by him.

There is a lot more to this than I have included such as family politics and mental health illnesses but I wanted to keep to the facts as ultimately that is what the law will decide on.

It would be nice to get some perspective from other people or anyone who has experienced something similar so we have some idea of what to expect to happen next.

Thank you for reading.

OP posts:

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 17/02/2022 12:24

Not a lawyer but my thoughts are:

Did he pay for it and can he prove it?

If he couldn't be named on the deed because of Right To Buy how did he pay for it? Did he give the money to MIL and declare it a gift?

Also, was he committing fraud by buying a house he had no legal right to buy?

chesirecat99 · 17/02/2022 12:30

I agree with BringBackCoffeeCreamsB.

How was the property paid for? Did he give her the full amount as cash? Did he declare it as a gift? Or was there a mortgage and he is claiming he contributed to the mortgage payments/upkeep of the house? If it was mortgaged, did he give her the money for a deposit? In that case, usually the bank would require any money given for the deposit is declared as a gift. I believe another factor would be whether he was financially dependent on her at the time of her death.

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 12:37

Thank you for your response.
He claims he can prove it but we haven't seen any evidence of this yet. There are letters from the time where they asked the question if he could be put on the deeds but the letter states that they would have to wait 3 years or they would have to pay back the discount she recieved. But this was a lot more than 3 years ago so they still had 15 years where they could have added his name. I don't know how he transferred the money or how they did it to be honest and I was surprised it could be done that way! I guess this is something that will reveal itself when we contest his claim but to me it just feels like it should have been illegal for him to benefit from a "right to buy" when he had his own property the whole time.

OP posts:

chesirecat99 · 17/02/2022 12:44

I think you can see whether there was a mortgage/charge against the property at the land registry. I would also be searching through any paperwork your DMIL had to see if you can find any relevant paperwork/bank statements etc.

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 12:52

Thank you, these are all great questions we can be prepared to try and get the answers to. We have spoken to a solicitor who said it could cost between £3000-£20000+ depending on if it goes to court. Which is scary to think if we had to pay this all out to get nothing.
He was not financially dependant on her, he is retired and from what he has said he has always done well financially. They used to go on lots of expensive holidays before the pandemic. He owns another house, I'm not sure if that one is mortgaged but the one owned by my MIL isn't from what I believe.... Just realised I have no idea how to find that out... I don't think it is but I think we only know that from what he had told us.

OP posts:

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 12:56

@chesirecat99 One of the things that had been difficult is that because he lives in her house and has done for years it had been difficult for my husband to look through any of her paper work and we were naive/not organised enough from the beginning to attempt to look for anything. Her partner has said he doesn't mind my husband looking through the loft or his mums 'things' but he won't let my husband do it on his own and has clearly already gone through a lot of her stuff himself.

OP posts:

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 12:57

Sorry if that was confusing, I meant he is always there when my husband has attempted to go round and look

OP posts:

Dressingdown1 · 17/02/2022 13:05

Even if your mil was married to her partner he wouldn't necessarily get her whole estate under the intestacy rules (anything over £270, 000 would go to her children in that case ) I think your offer to share the estate is generous.
As they lived in the house for so long and whoever paid for it got it cheaply because of the council house discount, he can't expect to inherit everything.

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 17/02/2022 13:08

You should start the discovery process with lawyers and make your decision whether to proceed once all the relevant documents have been declared. That will not cost anywhere near £20,000 and if you split it between the 3 brothers its probably a good investment. Also have you checked the national will register just in case she did make one but did not tell her partner?

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 13:18

@dressingdown1 That was the thought process I had too. They were not married and if I'm honest I saw their relationship as more like convenient companionship as she liked looking after the home/cooking etc and he needed someone to do that for him.... That probably sounds like I'm being horrible but if I'm really really honest I find him controlling and I think he liked 'looking after her' which is why I found it so weird that he hadn't helped her make a will as he always seemed quite a meticulous person when it came to paperwork.

OP posts:

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 13:25

@ohsugarhoneyicetea I agree, once split between the brothers it isn't a huge amount and would be fine. The other issue we have is that his younger brother still lives in the house and from what I can tell believes that if he agrees to sign the house over to his mums partner then he will "look after him" after. And his older brother has been nc with the family for nearly 15 years, we have made a bit of contact since she died but he isn't very stable and hasn't returned any messages about this situation since the partner refused the offer of splitting 4 ways. It's messy and I want to be the one to help them all see that they should stick together and do this together but I think they have so many unresolved issues between them that it could end up with just my husband paying the legal fees... Which I think he would do just to stand up for what he believes his mum would have wanted.

OP posts:

WouldIwasShookspeared · 17/02/2022 13:58

I think I'd email him and ask him to confirm in writing that he committed fraud by financing a house purchase under the right to buy scheme when he did not qualify for that scheme and that he is seeking to now have that house transferred into his name.

Maybe that might make him back off a bit.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/02/2022 14:08

Is it fraud to give or lend the purchase price to the tenant who is entitled to the right to buy at a discount?

Difficult situation, OP. Mediation might be a better way forward than litigation if you can't agree informally. Cheaper, quicker and less unpleasant.

Babyvenusplant · 17/02/2022 14:09

@WouldIwasShookspeared

Maybe that might make him back off a bit.

Yeah I'd go for this option too

nomoneytree · 17/02/2022 14:19

From a different perspective, they lived together with presumably joint finances for nearly 2 decades. That is longer than many marriages. He may well have a legitimate claim. He undoubtedly has some rights as he was living in the house and he may have a legitimate expectation that she would provide for him. Have you got legal expenses insurance. That might cover you to look into it properly. Take your time now and don't make any rash decisions. Just because he has another property doesn't mean he doesn't have a claim over this one. I wouldn't stoke fires at this stage claiming fraud.

chesirecat99 · 17/02/2022 15:44

Is it fraud to give or lend the purchase price to the tenant who is entitled to the right to buy at a discount?

No, but if it was a gift, it was OP's DMIL's to do with as she wished. If it was a loan, it should have been documented.

After 3 years, it was hers to sell without having to pay back the discount, so she could have added him to the deeds or "sold" it to him in lieu of paying back the loan (if it was a loan). I suppose he could also have taken her to court to "repossess" the house if it was a loan and she didn't pay him back.

It might be tricky if you don't have access to her financial records. He may well have proof that he gave or loaned her the money but without her records, you won't know if she paid him the money back.

If he "gave" her the money to buy it outright and they weren't married and living together at the time, I think that would have had capital gains tax implications and she would have had to pay CGT.

WouldIwasShookspeared · 17/02/2022 15:57

If he gave her the money, he has no claim on the house.

If he bought it in her name but intended it for himself then he was not allowed to do that and it was deception (I'm sure that's not the legal term but he wasn't the tenant, he had no right to buy and would t have been allowed to)

If he loaned her the money but they pretended it was a gift then that's also a problem.

She had many years to add him to it and chose not to. Now he wants the house. I hope he doesn't get it.

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 15:57

@nomoneytree thank you for that perspective. It is one we have thought about, we would never want to see him without a home but he had said he wants the money to help a family member (his family not ours) and if we signed the house over to him once he had made sure that family member was OK (I presume it may be paying off a mortgage/debt) then he would give some to us. My husband felt uncomfortable with this but it is what his younger brother wants to do. (I have literally just found this out this afternoon).
So I really don't think he was relying on my MIL to provide for him.
I haven't heard of legal expenses insurance? Is this something everyone should have?

OP posts:

WouldIwasShookspeared · 17/02/2022 15:58

He's full of shit. He won't do that.

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 16:14

@WouldIwasShookspeared
I am hoping we will find out more about how the property was bought in her name with him funding it because it does seem odd that it would legal to do that and for them to know he intended on living there/jointly owning it. Very unfair when there are people who could have really benefitted from a genuine "right to buy" and he was allowed to buy this and benefit from it. It's just all very strange and the fact that she didn't change it in all the years they could have is also odd.

OP posts:

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 16:15

Just want to say thank you for everyones responses. It's really helping me look at this from different angles and hopefully we will be able to go about this is the best way for everyone.

OP posts:

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 16:16

@wouldiwasshookspeared
Haha! That was my husbands response to be honest!

OP posts:

Wilma55 · 17/02/2022 16:26

Your house insurance policy might include legal advice cover or if you are in a Trades Union.Some employers offer this too.

Original poster

AmIthedrama · 17/02/2022 16:34

@wilma55 Ah I see. No we only have contents insurance as we rent our property. I don't think it will be covered on our policy but I will double check. Thanks.

OP posts:

DrDetriment · 17/02/2022 16:42

Did he pay for it? If he did then morally the house is his, even if his partner thought it was a gift. Are you really going to not compensate him for a house he potentially bought with his own money and presumably contributed to for years?

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