Contesting probate

[AmIthedrama]

Hopefully I can explain this enough that someone could give some advice. We are seeking legal advice too but it would be good to get perspective on it from a few people who don't know me and won't just take "our side" on it.

My mother in law passed away last May and it turned out she did not have a will.
The house she owns is in her name only. My husband has 2 brothers so it was assumed that her whole estate would just automatically go to them equally.

Her partner of 18 years lived with her (part time for the first 10 years or so then fully in more recent years) but also owned his own property nearby which he still owns.
The day my MIL died her partner told my husband the house was in her name because he bought it for her and wanted her to have security.

Her partner is now making a claim for her property, telling us he bought the house with the intention to live there together and believes the property should fully be given to him. From information we have found we know that the property was bought in 2003 under the "right to buy" scheme so because it was my mother in laws house they had to put the property in her name only. Her discount was 38% of the price of the property. They have never changed the deeds to include him and she made no indication to us that she was going to do that.
Before he put his claim in my husband had a conversation with him and his brothers where he suggested they include her partner to all get an equal share but this was rejected by him.

There is a lot more to this than I have included such as family politics and mental health illnesses but I wanted to keep to the facts as ultimately that is what the law will decide on.

It would be nice to get some perspective from other people or anyone who has experienced something similar so we have some idea of what to expect to happen next.

Thank you for reading.

Her partner is now making a claim for her property, telling us he bought the house with the intention to live there together and believes the property should fully be given to him.

Well he would say that, wouldn't he.

That added with his generous offer to let your youngest BIL to stay and be taken care of makes it sound like he's trying his luck. But - it's up for him to prove it with his claim. Good luck.

We got the deeds a while ago to check her name was on them

The lender keep the deeds until all money owed is paid

So the fact you’ve got the deeds, it’s states no money owed - should indicate the house doesn’t have a mortgage

Ah so annoying! I wrote a long message about her not working and why then my phone switched off!
But short story is no she has never worked and I have no way of knowing how much she was supported by her partner but I presume he must have been helping as the help she would have recieved before the property was bought would have stopped.

The problem with that argument is that the MIL could only utilise the discount because the partner paid for the house. Without him the discount was worthless to her (we are assuming he paid?? ). She then got to live in the house rent free for the next 19 years.

We don't know if she was living there rent free or paying him rent or paying back a loan from him or if there was a mortgage.

Even if she did live there rent free for 19 years, he also benefited by living there with her and renting out his house, giving him an income he wouldn't have had otherwise. He benefitted too. If he had used the money to buy a second undiscounted property elsewhere for the same amount of money, it would have been a lot smaller and generated less rental income.

He wouldn't have been able to buy her property at a 38% discount if she hadn't got a discount based on the amount of rent she had paid. That was her financial contribution to the "investment". BTW, I believe, if she had sold it to him below market value at the price she paid with the discount after the 3 years were up, the difference in price would have been considered to be a gift from her to him and subject to capital gains tax because they weren't married.

If I buy a £10 cake with a friend, they pay £7.20 and I pay £3.80 using a money off voucher I got with my last purchase at the bakers, would it be fair for my friend to take all of the cake, @FunnyGoingsOn?

I would do everything I could to make sure your DH’s brother continues to live in the house, at least until the situation is resolved. Urge him not to be encouraged or volunteer to leave. If nothing else I think it strengthens your case, that he is residing there.

Re the will, there is potential for it to “be disappeared” (my late father showed me his will and showed me where it was stored - but his second wife made it “disappear”)

If an opportunity presents, could you test the water with MIl’s partner? “MIL mentioned she had done a will but she didn’t say where….” - and see his reaction?

I feel for you.

@theworldsgonefeckingmad

Not a lawyer but I have bought my house using right to buy. I had gifts from parents to help abs they had to sign a declaration that was sent to the council that stated their money was a gift and they don't have a legal claim on the property, maybe speak to the local authority find out if they have paperwork from the purchase?

That's interesting. Even if they no longer have the records, they should be able to advise if they would have required him to do that.

Imagine she might have had a will that left everything to her children which was disappeared when she died!
If he’s claiming he paid for it or towards it he will have to prove it.

@forensicaccountant this is something we are really kicking ourselves over because a few weeks before she died she spoke to my husband about her sister not having a will and my husband asked her if she did and she said yes. I know from my own experience with her that she could sometimes just go along with things to please people and not cause upset but I don't think she would have lied about this. We did a will check online and nothing came up so if she did have one we can't locate it.

[quote AmIthedrama]@funnygoingson
I only know what's left in her account from her inheritance, I don't know how much she recieved at the time but there is still just over £100000 in her various accounts.[/quote]
If you know who she inherited from, you may be able to find out how much she inherited here:

www.nationalwillregister.co.uk

Although I feel for him if he is telling the truth, I would be wary that without her financial records, even if he does have proof he loaned her the money, you can't know whether she paid him back at some point with her inheritance.

I suppose there is also the possibility, if she inherited large sums, she may have informally agreed to "pay her share" by paying an equivalent amount to his contribution to the house (or more) for other things, such as holidays, cars etc. I would want to know how much she inherited and where all the money went. How long after the house was purchased did she inherit the money? Maybe that is why she wouldn't put his name on the deeds. If she inherited enough money to buy the house herself, perhaps his game was to put all his money in the only asset while they spent her inheritance but it backfired when she caught on.

@theworldsgonefeckingmad
That is interesting, thank you for that.

Yes @chesirecat99 I think checking to see if that was even something the local authority did at that time is something we will do ASAP.

I really can't say thank you enough to all the people who have contributed to this today, it has been a real struggle for us because of the grief involved but getting information from people not emotionally connected is really helping.

"If an opportunity presents, could you test the water with MIl’s partner? “MIL mentioned she had done a will but she didn’t say where….” - and see his reaction?"
@synchroswimmer
This is another thing that has made us question things. Before we knew he wanted to make a claim my husband mentioned that his mum had told him there was a will. Her partner said that he had helped her write one but she had never signed it or done anything with it. He has since said he has no details or copies or anything to do with this will he helped her write. I find this hard to believe from him, he is very careful with paperwork from what I have seen but he may be telling the truth... I really don't know.
Just writing that has made me feel like we have been so naive with all of this.

It was her right to buy, if he bought it he defrauded the council, he is entitled to nothing IN LAW even if he can show he paid for it.

I haven’t read the full thread, but it seems to me that it belongs to MIL’s children on I testacy and her partner doesn’t have a leg to stand on unless he was financially dependent on her and makes a claim under the 1975 Act for family and dependents. As a man of his own independent means that is unlikely to be successful.

Do you know on what basis he is seeking to claim an interest in the property? If he lent her the money he can only have his loan back. If he gifted her the money it’s hers. I don’t think you should worry at all and you certainly shouldn’t offer to give him a quarter share.

I think solicitors can check and see if a will is held anywhere? Your DP's solicitor will advise.

Do you know on what basis he is seeking to claim an interest in the property @ossoduro
His claim is that he paid for it, contributed to its upkeep and it is his home.

[quote AmIthedrama]@gasp0dethew0nderd0g
That is a much better way of explaining it than I did. Thank you.
My husband has an appointment with a lawyer tomorrow but his younger brother has said he won't pay a penny towards it.... But would be happy to get the money 🤔
His older brother said he wants to go with the "wait and see" approach.... Honestly no idea what he means by this! I think he also wants to avoid paying legal fees.[/quote]
Any money you pay out in legal fees to settle this should come out of the estate anyway, so even if your BIL says he won’t contribute, his share of the estate will be reduced by his proportion of the solicitor fees.

Any money you pay out in legal fees to settle this should come out of the estate anyway, so even if your BIL says he won’t contribute, his share of the estate will be reduced by his proportion of the solicitor fees.

I agree. It's the estate that has to pay to sort this situation out as there's not a clear way forward otherwise. The partner can't sell the property and neither can the brothers if he won't vacate.

Also, I believe that if any of the three brothers are claiming benefits, then this inheritance will be counted as being their asset whether they want to claim it or not.

If your MIL's partner was financially controlling, I'm wondering if this is her passive aggressive way of ensuring her children inherit.

With the property in her sole name, no will and with her partner owning another house, his legal claim is shaky.

Partner is claiming an equitable interest on the basis that he invested capital sums towards the property with the common and agreed intention that he would acquire a share in it. He needs to show this common intention with MIL existed. He can't unilaterally decide the investment was to gain him a share. MIL could well have thought it was a kind gift. In any event MIL qualified for 38% discount and so that percentage at least was her contribution towards the property value even if he funded the rest, and hers to leave to her children. The partner can claim only the portion that was his intended interest not the whole house.

His claim is that he paid for it, contributed to its upkeep and it is his home.

Then he is going to have to prove that fact, then prove he didn’t gift the property - as the house deeds are not in his name, he lived there whilst the MIL was alive but kept his own home

Of course that’s not going to be easy to prove without then incriminating himself of fraud and possible having to pay an additional 38% of the property?

Either way, the situation with the house and her money needs sorting out. The property needs an owner who is responsible for upkeep and insurance. Is he in a position to offer your DH and siblings a settlement figure.

@AmIthedrama

Do you know on what basis he is seeking to claim an interest in the property *@ossoduro* His claim is that he paid for it, contributed to its upkeep and it is his home.

If you Mil didn't work and still has the money from her inheritance in her bank then he seems like he has a fair point. Is there anyway to find out how much the inheritance she got was.

We have spoken to a lawyer but to move forward with him representing us with the dispute we need to pay £1200 upfront. We are so new to this. Does this sound right? My husband has emailed him asking what this payment includes/excludes and a quick Google search has not really helped me find out anything more as costs obviously vary depending on the situation I guess.
We really just want someone with us during the mediation so we don't miss anything or don't ask the right questions etc.

@funnygoingson we may be able to once my husband is named as administrator. I presume my MILs partner has all of these details and access to them as I don't think (I am just guessing though) that my MIL would know how to do online banking without his support. My husband can't go into her house without his permission so he would be there is my husband tried to look himself.

In a previous post you mentioned your BIL still lives in the property. I know this is a little underhand but can your husband not visit his brother when MILs partner is out and use this as an opportunity to look through any paperwork and photograph any relevant documents?

At this stage all you need is the name and if possible account numbers of her bank etc. your husband can then approach the banks as administrator and obtain copies of historical bank statements etc.

WRT the solicitor, your husband is right to ask for clarity about what is and isn’t included and on going costs. It may be worth asking another firm for their costs. Also CAB may be able to assist.

Once your husband is administrator there are things he will need to do including establishing and documenting full details of her debts as well as her assets. As this must be done before any of the estate can be distributed you may be able to persuade MILs partner that you need access to all paperwork to do this before any decisions can be made about distributing her estate. The tack I would take with MILs Husband is why pay solicitors to fight over everything and diminish the estate when the point of disagreement is who owns the house. If he lets your husband have all the paperwork he can save diminishing the estate any more than is necessary.

Update - We have a letter from her partners solicitor saying that the potential claim her partner is making is under the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act 1996. Does anyone know what this is?