Could my siblings force me out of my parent house when she dies, I am her carer and she wants me to stay on but hasn't changed will? (NOTE: title taken from This is Money article)

[Gonnagetgoing]

MSN article from This is Money about 55 year old man living with mother and caring for her for past 3 years whilst she is terminally ill, he has no savings, no income, no benefits and has relied on parents for financial help. He's worried he'll be turfed out of the family home despite his mother wanting it to stay in the family and is youngest of 5 children who all own their own homes.

I have a friend who is youngest of 7 children and cared for her mother who had dementia and was ill in last 5 years of her life. Other siblings did very little or nothing. Her mother wanted her house to go to youngest child (friend) but wasn't of sound mind to change will or friend didn't feel able to broach it, and arrange it and deal with fallout from family one of whom was a solicitor and very nasty, other not much better. The parents here - the father died when children were younger and the mother worked but lived in a wealthy area and when she moved to a smaller house also moved to a wealthy/up and coming area.

Friend fell pregnant at 15 (single mum) and has a council house and son who's done very well for himself and bought a flat with his fiance. She has worked but obviously not been able to save a lot. She also believes in council housing being for working class people who can't afford to buy. Friend also helped out by being a semi-carer for her brother who had diabetes and I think kidney disease and needed help including lifts to hospital. He sadly died young recently.

I also have a very close friend who's suffered a stroke but moved in with her mum approx 15 years ago - they both care for each other - her mum is a very sprightly 85 year old but with bad hearing problems and hip replacement but very well otherwise. She recently told me that as her mum won't move she may have to work part time or give up her job to care for her mum. Yet she has 2 siblings both with teens/grown up children who have good careers and big houses and don't care for their mother at all. How is that fair?! My friend has worked in a field where the pay has been low or got housing free and hasn't been able to save to buy a property. Yet when she dies presumably the house proceeds will be split 3 ways or at least that's what she's told me in the past.

I'm quite lucky, got own house, DPs in their own house and stepdad 10 years younger than DM but both fairly well although DM not in past and has health conditions which are managed.

So my question is - hypothetical really how is it fair for children who already have houses to expect a sibling to care for ill/elderly parents - yet don't appreciate the care they give and also what they'd pay if parent had to have a private carer or NHS carer or go into a home? There seems to be no fair split or understanding here and if it were me, I'd take a lesser slice of a house or otherwise inheritance to reflect the fact that e.g. brother looked after mum.

If his Mum wants him to stay in the house then she should leave it to him in her will. She could also leave him a percentage to buy a property (presuming house is large and he could downsize). She could also leave to all children but say son has a lifetime beneficiary (so can’t be sold/evicted while he is alive).

If ultimately mum is leaving to be split between children then the outcome is he will have to leave if other siblings want to sell.

In ideal world yes the homeless sibling who did all caring would be able to get themselves sorted later then some of the remaining capital between rest of siblings. But if the will hadn’t been written that way people can wait take all they can. Like you say without sibling giving up 5y then it could easily be £1000 a week in a care home and have nothing left to leave.

If he's 55 and only been caring for her for 3 years what was he doing for the preceding 30+ years? Has he always been no savings, no income, no benefits and has relied on parents for financial help.?

Re other friends I'm assuming your knowledge of the siblings lives are what your friend has shared with you? You don't know their finances, general life situation do you?

* If he's 55 and only been caring for her for 3 years what was he doing for the preceding 30+ years? Has he always been no savings, no income, no benefits and has relied on parents for financial help.?*

^This. He shouldn’t get anything

Once again this highlights the importance of making a will when you are of sound mind. A lot of families are unbelievably predatory when a relative dies with an estate to leave. Making your wishes clear hopefully cuts out some of the arguments and the greed

That sounds like a chap who posted on here and couldn't understand why the solicitor was doing what the law said, I stead of 'what was fair/what mum wanted'. He was very distressed. And clueless.

My Son did a lot of stuff for my late parents from when he was around 16 - 26 he pretty much lived with them although he did have a base with me when they drove him mad 😂 he also worked full time.

They left half of the house to him in his will when they died and half of the savings and life insurance policies
This will enable him to get a house as he will have a massive deposit
In theory his half should have gone to me but I’m happy for my DS to benefit from my parents
The importance of will can’t be shouted out enough
But so many people don’t bother

@Georgeskitchen agree. I’ve seen families never speak over wills. Often the issue is the person making the will doesn’t want to create problems, so they split equations between beneficiaries and say, “but I’m sure everyone will make it fair” and I always say, “no they won’t”.

Oh re above the friend with youngest daughter house got shared between all 7 siblings equally as friend didn’t want to make waves by getting her mum to change Will.

@picklemewalnuts

That sounds like a chap who posted on here and couldn't understand why the solicitor was doing what the law said, I stead of 'what was fair/what mum wanted'. He was very distressed. And clueless.

I remember him He was a bit of a Dick

@Gonnagetgoing

Oh re above the friend with youngest daughter house got shared between all 7 siblings equally as friend didn’t want to make waves by getting her mum to change Will.

So the mum wouldn't change of her own volition? She'd have to be asked to change it? Do the friends of yours who are living with parents and wanting the full house left to them, are they contributing to bills/upkeep? The first chap isn't is he? What's funding food/living expenses?

And am wondering if the parents lived in a 2 bed rented property, would they have such keen live in family carers?

Money and property brings out the worst in people/siblings. I speak from recent, awful experience! Especially if a parent is vague about wishes.

Unfortunately fair doesn't come into it. It's the deceased person's money/property to do with what they wish. If they haven't changed the will, one can only assume that the will reflects their wishes and act accordingly. You can't expect the legal system to try to work out which beneficiary deserves it more.

Is it "fair" for three years (or even seven) of caring for a relative to equal an entire house? If that was the return I'm sure you'd see people lining up to be carers.

Inheritance is unfair. The law doesn't try to make it fair. It has no way to reasonably weigh up what everyone has done or not done for the deceased and decide on a "fair" proportion of their assets to recompense. The law tries to make it reliable without burdening the state too much.

In general people should look out for their own welfare first and then give what they can to help their nearest and dearest- or make proper arrangements. Not do whatever they fell they want to or should without concern for their responsibility to look after themselves and then throw their hands in the air when things don't fall into place for them.

@MichelleScarn - I’m not saying my friends who helped care (one lived near her mum), other lives with mum but had a strike and works and pays rent and bills

I don’t think they should have necessarily got the whole house share just considerably more than there well off siblings who don’t care for parents, rarely saw parents yet are more than happy to take a big share of the family home when sold and don’t take into account their siblings being unpaid carers.

@MichelleScarn - when the mother wanted to leave her daughter the entire house her dementia/Alzheimer’s had deteriorated so badly in the months after if I recall that probably a solicitor (I used to be legal PA) wouldn’t touch changing will - not sound mind?

I would rather the equity in my parents house went to providing the best possible care for them
I love my parents dearly but if it meant I had to give up my job and many other aspects of my life to provide a service to them that would be better provided by professionals......
It’s just money, their money, so it’s for the care they need in old age
People have plenty of options to opt out of using equity in their house to pay for nursing home fees, if they don’t use them they don’t trust their children

I don't think a parents estate should be left according to children's circumstances. If the children want to do that amongst themselves that's a different matter.

However, caring for an elderly parent is hard, restlessness, stressful work that grinds you down. Siblings that leave it to others to do because they're too far away or too busy, should morally compensate the carer because their life has effectively been put on hold for years. Unless you've been a carer, you really can't understand how hard it is. Unfortunately, though, it's up to the parent to have some foresight over this and protect the carer, or at least see them rewarded in some way.

@Louisianagumbo

I don't think a parents estate should be left according to children's circumstances. If the children want to do that amongst themselves that's a different matter.

However, caring for an elderly parent is hard, restlessness, stressful work that grinds you down. Siblings that leave it to others to do because they're too far away or too busy, should morally compensate the carer because their life has effectively been put on hold for years. Unless you've been a carer, you really can't understand how hard it is. Unfortunately, though, it's up to the parent to have some foresight over this and protect the carer, or at least see them rewarded in some way.

Compensation for caring needs to be agreed to by the parent and carer not assumed by any party.

Carers should not just be doing it all hoping that everything will work out without having the hard conversations about what is involved and what they require to allow it to happen. And if their siblings are not prepared to give anything up for their parents' sake, a sibling that is prepared to should not be able to force those other siblings to do so.

@NumberTheory. I agree, as I said, that only the parent can make it right for their carer. But if my sibling was caring for my mum, knowing how hard it is, I hope that I would make sure they were looked out for after my parent's death. Although the disposal of the estate is a legal process, it would be nice to think there is some morality amongst family members.

[quote Louisianagumbo]@NumberTheory. I agree, as I said, that only the parent can make it right for their carer. But if my sibling was caring for my mum, knowing how hard it is, I hope that I would make sure they were looked out for after my parent's death. Although the disposal of the estate is a legal process, it would be nice to think there is some morality amongst family members.[/quote]
You just don't always know, even when they're your siblings, what's gone on between a parent and child, though. Or how that might give a very different "moral" perspective to different family members.

I don't see why caring for a parent equals getting the whole house. I think that's really grabby.

@Sugartitsorahilly

I don't see why caring for a parent equals getting the whole house. I think that's really grabby.

@Sugartitsorahilly - I don't think caring for a parent equals getting the whole house but I do think - as per recent posts on this thread that if a child of the parent takes on significant share of caring for a sick/elderly parent - as one friend did then this should be reflected in the split of sale proceeds of house and/or other assets.

Like I said - so many siblings in this scenario especially if married with kids and their sibling is generally younger or youngest and either has no kids/husband or older adult child as one friend had - they just left care of the parent entirely up this sibling - in one friends case she didn't actually care for the parent as they had private carers but the friend spent a considerable part of her day/working time organising and keeping an eye on the private carers, doctors etc as her mother had dementia/Alzheimers as well as other health conditions. friend also had another job whilst sorting this out. Only one sibling of hers who was a nurse very occasionally helped out and stayed over with their mum. I really hope that when her brother who she also helped care for left something to her/other siblings when he died and that he didn't die intestate.

My friend has been through this recently. Both his brothers moved out and on with partners. He moved out at various points also, however he stayed local and at the time his father fell ill was living at home (paying rent). He cared for his father for 4 years and it took it's toll. Fortunately his father and him did have a conversation and he had 2 years in the house after his fathers death before the house could be put up for sale. He also receives a slightly higher %, but only slightly.