Urgent decision do I need a barrister for fact finding

[wombleflump]

I am doing a child case as a litigant in person. I have a fact finding hearing coming up. I have already submitted all the evidence I have, much of which could be said to be jersey or my word against ex. He is abusive. He has Previous record previous relationships. I’m not sure if I’m being arrogant to think I can self rep myself at a fact finding. If the evidence can not be changed how can a barrister help. It will cost me £4K junior barrister for two days. Money I could spend on DC. What would people recommend particularly those who work in the courts. Am I being arrogant thinking I’m professional/ literate. Am I underestimating what a barrister can offer. My other concern is obviously they don’t know the car or my ex as well as me. Thanks

Something that I noticed is that if you are self representing you get a better chance to put your points forward and the other side solicitor tends not to be too aggressive not to turn the judge against their client. But, I wouldn’t advise this if your ex is abusive as you could feel intimidated enough not to be able to articulate your views if he is present (especially as good abusers are good at putting the charm up and appear reasonable while you are having a mini internal breakdown out of having them at close distance)

I can articulate in his presence as I’ve done all the short hearings myself. EX however doesn’t follow the conversation, monologues and tries to divert the issues. Judges never seemed to stop him which why I was thinking a barrister would keep it more on track.

The other side is LIP

It's always better to have the best legal team whenever possible.

I wouldn't risk it for a fact finding. Never.

I think if there's a chance you walk out of court with no findings/inconsequential findings against your ex you will forever regret spending the 4k. It's a fair sum of money but not life changing. If you spend the 4k and you don't get the result you want you will always know you did all you could.

Not spending*

Did you see this wombleflump?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters/4473340-Challenging-a-CAFCASS-Section-7-report?watched=1&msgid=114850141#114850141

This is what I read a lot on forums that arrangements often exist with peoples abusers.

Yes. You can get cheaper I think. Junior Barristers are simply barristers who are not QCs. This might mean they are vastly experienced. And quite old!

You have to factor in paying VAT but you need to ask your solicitor to find you a “baby barrister”. They are the younger barristers at a chambers but of course a lot of them are very able. They are the future. Look at around 5 years call or less. This will be on the web sites.

The firm of solicitors should have a range of barristers chambers they can contact. This should give them a range of prices. However a solicitor and the barrister will work on a case but a well presented case can keep costs down in court.

Is the £4000 for direct access barrister or for sol and barrister. If you want to keep costs down and be represented at the hearing, a direct access barrister is best way to go.

Hi it’s a direct barrister I think they are junior baby barrister but seemed ok when chatted. It’s London based so quite expensive more experienced wanted 8k plus vat

£4000 for one day is too high. £10,000 for final hearing is also high. Direct access seems to be a rip off! If you have a solicitor, who do they use? Family solicitors know chambers and can talk to the clerks about price and who might suit you.

The issue here will be it may be more expensive as OP is a LIP and therefore the papers being placed before the barrister may not be in the type of order they would expect from a solicitor. £4000 does not seem excessive.

I don’t have a solicitor also it’s two days plus a conference, and it’s 3.5k with vat making it just over 4k

I already have a bundle made by a
McKenzie friend. The content is only made by LIP though plus the NCDV helped
Me write my first statement

Also this is a London chambers I should imagine other areas may be cheaper but thought it would seem better to get a local barrister

Which London chambers quoted you that? Some of them are extortionate. You should be able to get someone decent for less than that if you go towards the junior end.

I don’t understand why there was a full s 7 report (which you describe as favourable to your position) before a fact find. Is there at least a direction for the s 7 to be updated after the FF and in light of any findings made? What is your position regarding contact? What is the SWer recommendation (which presumably takes into account the DA allegations)?

Personally I think 4K is too much for a one day hearing and I’d be a bit sceptical about the use when you already have a s 7. Is he making allegations against you too or is it just you against him? I’m just curious as to who/what is pushing for a fact find when a full s 7 was able to be completed without one.

Really expensive family chambers I’d avoid if I wanted to keep costs down are QEB, 29 Bedford Row, 1 Hare Court and 1 Kings Bench Walk by the way. Their counsel are very good but in many cases, it’s using a sledgehammer to crack a nut when their fees are considered.

I’d perhaps try somewhere like 1 Garden Court, Coram, Pump Court Chambers or 3 Dr Johnson’s Buildings.

Are any of your 4 more reasonable chambers Direct access? But in theory it’s possible to get a cheaper quote.

@TizerorFizz

Are any of your 4 more reasonable chambers Direct access? But in theory it’s possible to get a cheaper quote.

I think that all of them have members that are DA trained, yes.

@wombleflump

I am doing a child case as a litigant in person. I have a fact finding hearing coming up. I have already submitted all the evidence I have, much of which could be said to be jersey or my word against ex. He is abusive. He has Previous record previous relationships. I’m not sure if I’m being arrogant to think I can self rep myself at a fact finding. If the evidence can not be changed how can a barrister help. It will cost me £4K junior barrister for two days. Money I could spend on DC. What would people recommend particularly those who work in the courts. Am I being arrogant thinking I’m professional/ literate. Am I underestimating what a barrister can offer. My other concern is obviously they don’t know the car or my ex as well as me. Thanks

I think in this situation I would want a barrister. Hopefully I'll never be in your situation because my STBXW is not abusive and isn't - to the best of my knowledge - the kind of person to make false accusations but if I was ever in a fact finding case I would want a barrister for one key reason. They are experts at cross examination and they are the best hope you have of weeding out liars, whether they're abusers or people making false allegations of abuse.

Also, remember, a junior barrister is simply a barrister who is not a QC. They might have been practicing for 30 or 40 years. You are unlikely to have a QC on a case like yours!

I would also strongly recommend trying to get witness statements from the other people he has been in relationships with. These would be excellent evidence.

Remember that you cannot file any evidence that hasn’t been ordered by the court so you’d need to bring the matter back for directions and ask for permission to file additional statements from exes (and those exes would need to agree to attend court and be cross-examined).

@Skilovingmama

Remember that you cannot file any evidence that hasn’t been ordered by the court so you’d need to bring the matter back for directions and ask for permission to file additional statements from exes (and those exes would need to agree to attend court and be cross-examined).

Indeed, another reason why the legal fees will be worth it.

@Unknown83
See my post at 16.31 yesterday. The op really doesn’t need a hugely experienced junior barrister. 5-10 years call or below even is fine.

Hi I'm a family solicitor.

Those fees are extremely reasonable for direct access counsel for a 2 day F of F.

Definitely use counsel for the F of F. They will tie your ex up in knots you couldn't even imagine. It's what they are there for. I do loads of advocacy on my own cases, but I wouldn't dream of doing a F of F, because it's a whole different skill set.