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Original poster

Urgent decision do I need a barrister for fact finding

62 replies

wombleflump · 04/02/2022 16:00

I am doing a child case as a litigant in person. I have a fact finding hearing coming up. I have already submitted all the evidence I have, much of which could be said to be jersey or my word against ex. He is abusive. He has Previous record previous relationships. I’m not sure if I’m being arrogant to think I can self rep myself at a fact finding. If the evidence can not be changed how can a barrister help. It will cost me £4K junior barrister for two days. Money I could spend on DC. What would people recommend particularly those who work in the courts. Am I being arrogant thinking I’m professional/ literate. Am I underestimating what a barrister can offer. My other concern is obviously they don’t know the car or my ex as well as me. Thanks

OP posts:
Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 16:02

Hearsay ( not jersey)

OP posts:
Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 16:02

Case not car

OP posts:
ArnoldBee · 04/02/2022 16:04

Can't you at least get a McKenzie friend?

Collaborate · 04/02/2022 16:07

A McKenzie friend is no substitute for a barrister. OP needs someone to speak for her, not hold her hand.

I would always advise that you get an expert in to cross examine witnesses. Go for it.

I am a family law solicitor, for what it's worth. I never do final hearings and always get a barrister in.

Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 16:21

Yes I can get a barrister. I just resent the money. I just keep wondering if I could do it myself. Thanks collaborate I need someone to tell me it straight. If it is about the facts can a barrister change the outcome. I guess the cross examining means they can prove the facts? Also I am thinking of a barrister for the fact finding but the final hearing I could do myself or is this also silly?

OP posts:
Rosemaryandlemon · 04/02/2022 16:25

You are underestimating the importance of a good barrister. The fact find will be used to make welfare findings. If you don’t prove it didn’t happen.

AndSoFinally · 04/02/2022 16:27

Straight forward cases you can easily do yourself. This one doesn't sound straight forward. Just think how much more than £4k you could end up spending to reverse a decision that went against you

Crazycatlady83 · 04/02/2022 16:28

Get a barrister. They charge £4k for a reason. You won't be able to replicate that.

Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 16:41

Thanks I couldn’t get a Straight answer from a couple of solicitors I asked in RL. I can afford it but I just hate wasting money I could use for DC over this court case. So far it has indirectly cost me tens of thousands in trapping me living in a expensive rent with no maintenance. My house purchase I have had to walk away and house prices going up. I don’t get maintenance. It just doesn’t always feel like it’s in the interests of the children.

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Skeptadad · 04/02/2022 18:59

Do you know that having findings will definitely put you in the position you want? It's an open question I have no idea what would constitute a finding so great it would remove a parent from a child's life.

I am only pondering this because you might end up paying £4k to have findings that won't make any difference anyway.

Anyway good luck wombleflump, I do believe your ex wasn't a good person.

Rosemaryandlemon · 04/02/2022 19:05

court wouldn’t order a fact find unless they consider it will have an impact on the welfare hearing. Lots of parties make various allegations about each other and sometime judge will say, “has no relevance to the welfare decisions so no point having fact find”.

In OPs case I’m presuming Domestic Violence (court has to have fact find) and so could have massive impact on welfare decision. CAFCASS in doing their Section 7 report will be told, “the court has made the following findings of fact…”

Domestic violence (and witnessing this) has been proven to have a massive impact on children. If none of OPs allegations are proven then CAFCASS will not take into consideration when doing their Section 7 report.

Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 19:05

I don’t know the answer to your question. It’s a good point but no one is able to tell me this.

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Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 19:07

In my case they have done the section 7 before the fact finding. To help speed it up but unfortunately they delayed it in the end due to lack of judges

OP posts:
Eileen101 · 04/02/2022 19:09

Yes, instruct a barrister. I'm a solicitor (not family) and wouldn't do my own hearing for a fact finding where my children were concerned.

Good luck op Flowers

Rosemaryandlemon · 04/02/2022 19:10

@wombleflump is it a safeguarding letter or a full section 7? If it is a full section 7 it should not have been done before a fact find. If you instruct counsel I would expect them after the fact find (on basis findings are made) to get an order that it is redone based on courts findings.

inheritancetrack · 04/02/2022 19:14

It is such an important issue I think you need the best person possible to represent you.

Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 19:16

it’s a full section 7. I am not looking to get it redone as it’s in my favour already. The SW who did it was on my side. I know it’s the wrong way round but I am trying to move so I don’t want any more delays already been over a year.

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GoingBacktoSchool123 · 04/02/2022 19:19

It’s not a waste of money. It’s the best chance you have of getting the outcome you want.

Litigants in person rarely present well for various reasons which are nothing to do with how articulate or intelligent they may be - lack of objectivity and failure to focus on key issues being to.

Yes, you could spend the £4k on something more fun but can you really afford for the hearing not to go your way?

Pebbledashery · 04/02/2022 19:27

I had a 2 day fact finding. It's more so the other sides legal counsel ripping you to shreds rather than you being intelligent and literate. There was no way I would've gone without a barrister. You could also ask a solicitor who has conducted their own advocacy to represent you also.

Pebbledashery · 04/02/2022 19:35

The final hearing is the most important hearing. You need professional, legal counsel to be able to defend your position. Just because the section 7 is in "your favour" doesn't mean you're home and dry. Judges are not duty bound to always follow the Cafcass recommendation. The cafcass recommendation you have is in your child's best interests and not cafcass being "on your side". Cafcass represent the best interests of the children, they are in neither parents corner. Please change your mindset on that.

Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 19:48

Yes the other side is LIP. I wasn’t going to get a barrister for the final hearing tbh. I can’t really afford to cover both hearings as final
Is longer was quoted 10k plus vat. I need to live so can’t really afford so much

OP posts:
Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 19:48

Need to move

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Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 19:51

I’ve been advised by some barristers to cover ff not final. Others reverse. Would love to know what people esp solicitors and barristers advise. Anyone know how much 2.5 days final hearing should cost could I get cheaper than this?

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Original poster
wombleflump · 04/02/2022 19:52

It’s not cafcass it’s LA SS.

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GrandmasCat · 04/02/2022 19:56

I paid about £5000 for a day hearing to the barrister but that was a long time ago. Someway I think my Resolution First solicitor would have done much better than the barrister as he knew my case inside out and was less incendiary than the barrister.