Ex making false allegations to employer

[ForAFriend123]

Apologies upfront if this post is incoherent. Still in a bit of shock and need urgent advice.

So to be brief DB left his alcoholic, abusive wife last year and after a horribly long court case now has full custody of his DC. There is a court order banning her from having any contact with the DC until such time that she seeks help for her addiction and mental illness and it is safe.

Sadly she continues to make his life as difficult as possible for DB (refusing to engage with family court, divorce process or the CSA, drunk, incoherent phone calls to his office colleagues, vile FB posts etc etc). He left the family home with nothing except the DC and is currently living with us as without a financial settlement he can't afford his own place.

He finally seemed to be turning a corner and moving forward with his life and his ex backing off until today. This afternoon DB had call from his manager (he works for a bank) to say that "an allegation had been received into the bank" and that DB is to have a meeting with HR tomorrow morning. No other details given.

DB us distraught and petrified he is about to lose his job. He has absolutely no idea what he is supposed to have done. He has worked there for 20 years and has a completely clean record.

I firmly believe this is the work of his ex (or one of the few friends who have hung around) but won't know more details until tomorrow. This is probably all that's left in her arsenal to trash DB's life.

Unfortunately he doesn't belong to a union but guess at this stage just looking for advice on how DB should handle tomorrow's video meeting. Assuming this is the work of his ex am a bit at his manager at the absence of any detail/reassurance especially given the know full well what he has been dealing with

Something si liar happened to me OP. So worrying for him, I’m sorry. In the first instance sit and listen, showing he is engaged and concerns and wants to find out what’s going on as he is a conscientious employ. Depending on what they say, and assuming the employer knows about the situation with the ex he could tell them. Depending on the next steps maybe get some legal advice. He should also be able to take a colleague with him for support and who can usefully keep a note as can be hard to take this stuff in.

Might be worth his getting a non molestation order, and reporting to the police as this is harassment.

@Keepingthingsinteresting

Something si liar happened to me OP. So worrying for him, I’m sorry. In the first instance sit and listen, showing he is engaged and concerns and wants to find out what’s going on as he is a conscientious employ. Depending on what they say, and assuming the employer knows about the situation with the ex he could tell them. Depending on the next steps maybe get some legal advice. He should also be able to take a colleague with him for support and who can usefully keep a note as can be hard to take this stuff in.

Might be worth his getting a non molestation order, and reporting to the police as this is harassment.

Thank you

Yes this 100% harassment. He did toy with the idea of getting a non-molestation order last year when she wouldn't leave him alone but decided against it (on legal advice) as was still in the middle of family court proceedings and didn't want to further complicate matters.
Things have since moved on and I think he now needs to reconsider.

As far as I know his old manager was aware of the situation (no escaping her drunken phonecalls into the office!) but not so sure about what the new manager who hasn't been in post that long. Will ask DB

I am beyond livid that she continues to make his life hell and the knock on effect this all has in their DC. So many lives ripped apart and still she keeps going.

Does he have evidence she has mental health issues? And of the family court order?

Sometimes certain insurance policies have legal cover.. usually home insurance though which I'm assuming he won't have. If he hasn't done anything g wrong he should be fine but it's still stressful

@Theunamedcat

Does he have evidence she has mental health issues? And of the family court order?

Oh yes, evidence from every possible agency. Family courts and associated Orders, SS, psychiatrist, police, crisis teams, community MH team......

@hereforthechat

Sometimes certain insurance policies have legal cover.. usually home insurance though which I'm assuming he won't have. If he hasn't done anything g wrong he should be fine but it's still stressful

This is a helpful point; she tried to have him removed from the house insurance joint policy but the company refused without his permission! I will get him to check to see if he has got legal cover. This is the last thing he can afford; he has had to spend everything he has on getting custody of his DC and the problem is I she probably knows this

Take the documents into work with him.
Get the Non Mol.

@SportsMother

As an employee his employer has a duty of care to protect him from vexatious allegations.

He should go with the expectation that his employer will be supporting him, especially given the long and detailed history of harassment.

If he is accused of something illegal, he should point it out and demand they get the police to investigate it. They must not be perceived as covering up crimes.

Was he asked to leave the office until after the meeting?

Thank you...this is what I would have expected of any employer. Especially one of 20 years standing. DB was totally thrown off his guard by the call so may not have have taken in what he was told but on the face of it there seems to be have a huge lack of "duty of care" by his manager. It's appalling really.

DB works from home so no being sent home from office.
Given that he works remotely can I attend the meeting with him? He is incredibly vulnerable emotionally and may not be n any fit state to understand what is going on

Obviously you can sit out of sight of the laptop camera, but I’d expect his employer would think the meeting is confidential.

Instead if being in person, could you record it so you can both go through it later?
You’ll never be able to use the recording legally unless he tells his manager he’s recording the meeting.
In fact most meeting software has a recording facility so perhaps DB can state that he’d like to record it?

@tanstaafl

Obviously you can sit out of sight of the laptop camera, but I’d expect his employer would think the meeting is confidential.

Instead if being in person, could you record it so you can both go through it later?
You’ll never be able to use the recording legally unless he tells his manager he’s recording the meeting.
In fact most meeting software has a recording facility so perhaps DB can state that he’d like to record it?

But surely he's entitled to a 3rd party/witness?

Will HR be obliged to disclose who has made the allegation ?

Generally for HR internal matter there is no right to an ‘independent witness’ OP. Union isn’t relevant here, but he can usually take a colleague. As he’s wfh he could ask to have you sit in with him- you shouldn’t get involved, just moral support and keep a note. They should be reasonable in the circumstances and let you join hi, if not I’d be indeed to do as @tanstaafl suggests and sit out of view- it which case you must be quiet!

Hope it goes ok

DH is going to sit out of view with him (and keep quiet!)
DB came very close to having a complete breakdown last year and was signed off work for 6 weeks. I am scared this will set him right back.

If it’s in any way classed as a disciplinary hearing then they should have told him that when scheduling it, and he should, IME, be able to have a witness join the meeting.

I assume (if it’s not just a “how can we help you with this problem” meeting) that they’ll treat it as fact-finding. In which case they should give him the opportunity to present his facts, take some time to consider what they’ve learnt and then inform him that they consider there’s enough evidence to hold a disciplinary and set a date for that.

I hope it’s just HR actually trying to be supportive. Sometimes they surprise you

If they do decide to go down the disciplinary route, his best course of action might be to go off sick with stress (pretty sure a Dr would agree he’s under a lot of that atm) and delay it as long as possible so he can sort himself out in the meantime.

What’s the allegation?
Who made it?
Where’s the evidence?

DB shouldn’t have to prove he’s innocent.
At the same time , sitting there smiling , arms folded saying ‘prove it’ isn’t the right way to go about it either.

Hopefully the meeting will be the company saying ‘this is nonsense right?’ and DB explaining the background regarding of alcoholic ex.
But he should still say as little as he needs to.

If the HR team refuse the request to record the Teams / Zoom call (and it’s in their rights to do so) then IMO your DH should record the audio element on his phone. He should also make sure he takes notes, as should your DB (they can’t object to the note taking).

You may not be able to use the recording in court / a tribunal, but at least you’ll have an accurate record for later. Disciplinary processes (if this is what it turns out to be) can drag on for weeks or months and your DB & DH will forget things that were said.

Make sure that if, at any point, they mention this is related to a disciplinary process your DB knows he can stop them immediately on the grounds he wasn’t informed in advance and that he wants to arrange a witness (as is his right). He can tell them, in those circumstances, that he wants to postpone until he can find one.

He should also make sure he gets a copy of the bank’s disciplinary policies and processes.

She sounds awful but.

A lot of assumptions being made here. You don't actually know this is connected to her could be something else.

At this stage all HR are doing is letting DH know there is an allegation.

They will need to investigate. If there's no evidence found that will be the end of the matter.

If there is evidence then DH will be entitled to a hearing.

DH will be entitled to be accompanied at the stage of a formal hearing. He doesn't have that tight until then.

Try not to worry. If DH has done nothing then there will be no evidence and nothing will happen.

DB sorry not DH

I think he has a right to have someone with him if he doesn't have legal or union representation. I will have a quick look but he could check with HR too so that he has their advice.

There is a "right to be accompanied" but quick glance at CAB website shows it may not apply to an initial meeting. There is also indoor on the ACAS website.

He has been told it's a "fact finding" meeting

I know you expect his employer to be supportive, and I would hope his manager will be given their knowledge of his difficulties with his ex wife.
However, depending on what allegation has been made, he works for a highly regulated industry and they also have a duty to investigate allegations - they can’t just assume they are false.
Hopefully, as they have termed this a fact-finding, they will be trying to ascertain whether there is anything material here. He has no legal right to representation at a fact finding, but some employers might support a request - it does depend what needs to be discussed.
For his own peace of mind, I would encourage him to access advice of his own - Acas would be a good place to start if he is not currently a union member (although I would always advocate joining the union too. They may not “represent” on this matter as it has already started, but that doesn’t mean he can’t ask for general advice).
As mentioned, some home insurance policies have a legal advice element which may be useful.
Also, depending on which company is he with, many of them have employee support/assistance programmes which also offer legal advice.
He can also seek advice/copies of relevant policy from HR - they should have an element/provision for employee support not just line managers.
I hope everything works out okay

I am constantly surprised about how vindictive people can be, often for no gain to them. It is just jaw dropping.

The only advice I can have is to have both you and your husband taking notes as sometimes it may be difficult to catch everything so two people reduces the risk of missing something.
Recording the audio is also a very good idea