Separation and shared house ownership

[CadenceandMelody]

I think it's time to leave my partner, but I am not in a great place financially since the pandemic and we own a house together and have 2 kids.
Quick rundown...I brought a house solo in Jan 2012, paid 25% deposit (with the help of my parents whom I paid back) May 2013 he started paying half the mortgage. In July 2016, I sold the house and we brought a bigger one. The 15% deposit came from the proceeds of the sale and all the fees for solicitors etc came out of it too, so he didnt have to pay anything upfront at all.
He earns a lot more than me, but for first year we split everything 60/40. After that I gave up my side job (i am self employed for main job) to have baby number 1 & 21 months laters baby number 2. I had one year of normal earnings, then the pandemic hit and smashed my earnings.So the percentage I have paid has gone down year on year. No way I would get a solo mortgage now, let alone one big enough for the house we live in. I LOVE our home and dont want to lose it, partners works away a lot (over half the year) but this is mine and the kids home and we love it.
We have shared ownership. our kids are 5 &3. We arent married
He wouldnt need to buy a house in the next few years as has accommodation through his work (though nowhere close)so it wouldnt cause him hardship to keep paying what he is paying, as he will still be increasing the equity in the house he owns half of.

I have started a degree for a new career, but it will take 5-6 years to complete that and the further training around 2 kids and my business.

Where do I stand, I assume given he is equally responsible for the mortgage, that he cant just stop paying, but could he force sale if he wanted to be awkward about it?

I assume he could however, stop paying towards the council tax and bills despite it being the kids home??

Anyone know the legalities of it?

The legalities are very complex and not clear. You are not married so that’s the first issue. I assume you have no financial agreement about ownership and who has paid what to ensure a fair split? So that’s another issue. So you will need to see a solicitor and see what you can get because every case is different. I’m assuming this house is joint ownership. Determining who has what share could be difficult. Can you afford the mortgage if you are a student? Should you revisit this decision in the circumstances? He might not be required to pay the mortgage on a house for someone to live in who he is not married to. You probably need to review this idea because he doesn’t have to agree to this. He might, of course, but you really need proper legal advice on where you stand as you are not married and it’s complicated.

This advice initially is based on the assumption you hold the house as joint tenants or tenants in common with equal shares.

I assume given he is equally responsible for the mortgage, that he cant just stop paying
No, he can. However, it would damage his credit record severely if no one else paid, so he probably wouldn’t, as I assume he’d want a mortgage etc in a few years. But if he was very upset/hurt it’s a definite possibility. He also might do it if he feels he’ll never get the equity out the house, as stopping paying the mortgage would mean eventually the bank would force a sale and the remainder would be split.

could he force sale if he wanted to be awkward about it?
It’s possible to go to court and force a sale, however I believe he’d be looking at £10k in court fees etc to do so, hence if he really wanted to be done, and has alternative accommodation for a few years, he’d be best to just stop paying the mortgage and let the bank force a sale if you can’t afford it.

I assume he could however, stop paying towards the council tax and bills despite it being the kids home
Yes, he’s not liable for bills or council tax somewhere he doesn’t live, but if you’re the only adult you’d get a 25% reduction on your council tax bill.

He would be liable for child maintenance, and if you know his salary you can work this out online. Your post sounds like you’ve basically treated him as a sperm donor and cash cow, especially wanting him to continue to provide for you all whilst also moving out his home into some distant work accommodation, so I’d really have a hard think about how you’re going to “sell” this to him if it’s really the route you want to take…

OP came on looking for legal advice, not a character assassination. Your first reply was helpful - this one not so.

OP, try posting on the Divorce/Separation board. You will probably still be told you need professional legal advice but you should get more of a handhold along the way.

Who are you to judge? It’s sad that often women give up a lot for a man without realising what they are not going to get when they don’t marry and have DC. Who would have 2 DC just for a man anyway? One other solution might be to finish training (6 years - is this a medic or vet?) and leave when op has a job and can get a house on her own.

I’ve known both men and women see others whilst together. They see non marriage as freedom. The reason in fact for not marrying! Freedom and no responsibility. Then, when there’s separation, it’s a big shock to find there’s no legal protection. It is worth reflecting upon: if only not to do it again.

I am not much interested in your opinions on my relationship. I know many unmarried couples and none of them see a lack of marriage certificate as I license to cheat.(ridiculous to say its not cheating if your not married)
We made the decisions that were best for us and our children at each stage, yes, I gave up my financial indepence, not cos I was just waiting around for a cash cow (insert eye roll here) but cos of how we wished to raise our children. He broke our agreements multiple times. I have no wish to take him to the cleaners or live off of him for the long term, just to not lose mine and the kids home until I am back in the position to take on a solo mortgage.

Sooo not interested in your personal opinion, just the legalities of our situation.
I have looked at child maintainance for his earnings and actually what he pays currently, is actual equal to that amount plus half the mortgage (though he also pays little ones nursery, but that will be free from september)
He has also been paying some extra since SEISS payments stopped in April, whilst i rebuild my student base for my current business, but that is hopefully only a shortterm need, as that is already increasing (providing we have no more restristions)

@JamMakingWannaBe

OP came on looking for legal advice, not a character assassination. Your first reply was helpful - this one not so.

OP, try posting on the Divorce/Separation board. You will probably still be told you need professional legal advice but you should get more of a handhold along the way.

Thank you, I may try that, since this thread has become unproductive!

The children are shared. He can not just stop paying for the roof over their heads. Hope he is a decent human being and pay his share. He may want out financially, can you afford the mortgage on your own? As you have stated you're studying and children are small. You may have to sell up and rent unless you can come to an arrangement until your youngest is 18.

What is he like as a character? Would he calculate everything down to the penny? Would he want custody?

As you have not been together for 7yrs + you do not have same rights as a married couple.

Good luck 💐

We have been together for 10 years. We had just started dating when I brought my first house. Though we only started "cohabiting" in 2013.

He is basically of good character, as in he tries, but childhood trauma and a bit of a victim complex, means he has a tendency to take shit out on me. He agreed to getting counselling after the cheating (which was more of a result of bad self-esteem and lack of an ability to self vailidate, than any issues specific to our relationship) Things had gotten a lot better after that, so he stopped (which did suggest probably wasnt wise) and now here we go again and I am not sure I have it in me for a repeat!

He couldnt physically have custody, some years he has made it home less than 100 days and they are not set or regular.

He wouldnt set out to screw over the kids ever and would always pay his way, but comes from a family that is very money orientated, who would definitely push him to "cover his back" and would definitely influence his decisions. Thus me wanting to get a grasp of where I stand legally to see if, what I would consider fair, is very high expectations based on my own morals rather than legalities.

So you want him to keep paying the mortgage, and contributing to the bills 'for the kids' but it does also benefit you too. And then when it suits you, in 5-6 years when you've retrained, and on the proviso you get a job immediately, and then need to get a mortgage, he can have half the equity and you are selling this as some kind of investment?!

And in the meantime, he can't buy another house because he's tied to an house where he's not permitted to live? But he can live in a work provided accommodation miles away from his kids in a house that he pays for.

I'm not sure about the legalities, I'm sure someone can advise you on that, but I really think you need to rethink this OP. It's coming across as fairly entitled.

Ultimately, unless you have legally structured it differently, which you would know about, he owns 50% of any equity in your property. He is liable for the mortgage so long as he remains on it, but it isn't him who will lose the roof over his head if he defaults, so he has less to lose than you. He should also pay you maintenance, but bear in mind that a lot of men manage to pay very little or nothing if determined.

I think your best shot is probably to try and come to an agreement with him about deferring the equity until you can sell later. However, you would almost certainly have to put the mortgage in your sole name and tbh it seems unlikely the bank would agree to that if you don't have a stable income. There's really nothing in it for him to keep paying the mortgage and leave his equity locked up when he could force a sale, unless he's feeling extremely generous. Being on a mortgage for a house he isn't living in at all is an awkward position to be in and if you defaulted his credit would also get dinged. I wouldn't do it if I were him.

IANAL, but unless you can pay the mortgage on your own I'd be surprised if you can keep the house. It might be best to resign yourself to selling and having a clean break.

As you have not been together for 7yrs + you do not have same rights as a married couple.

Assuming she is in England (I don't think she's said) she wouldn't have the same rights as a married couple even if she had been with him for 70 years. In this jurisdiction if you want to be treated as a married couple then you need to get married (or have a civil partnership).

@Mia85 you are correct. We do not have "common law" marriage in England and Wales. You need to speak to a solicitor OP. As you are unmarried you may be able to make a claim for the children, which includes housing under Schedule 1 Children's Act, but a lot will depend on the individual facts of your case. People will often talk about 30 min free chats, they aren't that common and frankly there is a limit to what anyone could do in that time. Instruct someone properly to provide you advice and then you can decide best how to proceed - it will be money well spent in the long run.

We can only assume you jointly own the property and he will have a 50% interest until it is sold. I can’t imagine that he will never want to force a sale. Legally that could be deferred for a period of time if he agreed or a court decided it was in the best interests of the children.

Assume he won’t have to pay the mortgage and that this will fall to you. That is the most likely outcome of such an agreement. Which is fair if you are occupying his share of the property. He will still retain his 50% interest and you need to live with that.

Child maintenance will be subject to whatever is agreed in terms of shared parenting. If 50:50 then you may not get anything. He can also ask for agreement to offset any mortgage payments against CMS.

Basically you are entitled to 50% of the equity and child maintenance if that is payable. If you want to defer sale of the house you probably need to be willing to pay the mortgage in full.

My personal advice would be to not rely on his goodwill, personal circumstances or his job security for your future. With 2 children to support maybe it is better for you to have a stable income now rather than a career change.

What would you do of he met someone else? Who insisted on releasing the equity and with whom he may have children, biological or step children. All this will hit you financially square between the eyes.

@rosiebl

So you want him to keep paying the mortgage, and contributing to the bills 'for the kids' but it does also benefit you too. And then when it suits you, in 5-6 years when you've retrained, and on the proviso you get a job immediately, and then need to get a mortgage, he can have half the equity and you are selling this as some kind of investment?!

And in the meantime, he can't buy another house because he's tied to an house where he's not permitted to live? But he can live in a work provided accommodation miles away from his kids in a house that he pays for.

I'm not sure about the legalities, I'm sure someone can advise you on that, but I really think you need to rethink this OP. It's coming across as fairly entitled.

It may be reading that way because I am not able to be more specific about his job. He has the accomodation and lives in it already, as part of HIS job, that HE loves and he chose to do and has no intention of leaving in the next few years. And yes, I chose to support that and take on solo parenting 75% of the year and limiting my own earning potentional, rather than make him give up a career he loved. (Very entitled of me.) Because it would allow me to be at home with my young children for the majority of the time in their preschool years. my career is extra curricular, so less ideal now my eldest has started school, thus why i began training for a new career.

He would be very unlikely to buy a house in the next 5 years as anything other than an investment, because he wouldnt be living in that one either.
Yes i would benefit from this too, Sorry i dont want to play the martyr and dont wish to lose a home I love cos he broke the promises of our relationship. Also I have a home office with a seperate entrance for my work and without that, my earning potential would be reduced even further, so moving somewhere cheaper isnt a straight forward option.
I havent made any solid decision yet, I may suggest couples counselling. I just want to know the legalities of my situation, thus why i posted it here and not in the AIBU forum. Which is where I would have put if if i wanted someone to judge me as a whole person based on a few snippets of my 10 year relationship.

OP I very much agree with Rosemaryandlemon that you should get proper advice on your situation. The possibilities will very much depend on the detail of your situation and a bit of money for some proper advice will really help you in understanding your position.

Having said that, if you want to get a general understanding of the situation now there are a few things you need to clarify:

1. Whereabouts are you (e.g. Scotland and England have different systems)?
2. When you say 'shared ownership' do you mean it's a house you jointly own with your partner? Shared ownership usually means an arrangement where you part own the house and you pay rent to e.g. a housing association that owns the other part. I don't think this is what you mean but shared ownership in this sense would create additional considerations so it's probably best to avoid ther term if that's not what you mean.
3. Do you know how you own the house? Are you joint tenants or tenants in common? If tenants in common, do you know whether you agreed how the equity would be split when you purchased the house? If you are not sure then dig out the paperwork and see what it says (in fact do this even if you are sure) as that will be the key to your legal situation.

Quite a lot of your comments are about the fairness of the situation and what would be reasonable for him to do. Most of that is not relevant to the legal position especially as you are not married. If you want to know the legalities then focus on that for the moment and you can then assess how strong your position is and how far you can appeal to his goodwill.

I would look into what benefits you'd be entitled to as a single parent if you stayed in the house. Plus what maintenance he would pay. The chances are you could could afford to cover the bills and maybe even some of the mortgage too.

When you say shared ownership, do you mean shared with him? I just ask as "shared ownership" usually refers to a situation where you buy a % of a house and then rent a % from the council (or housing association). In that situation you can, I believe, get help from housing benefit towards the rental part.

I assume you didn't ring fence your deposit and own the house 50/50?

Once you can work out how much money you have to work with, you could try and broker a deal with him on staying there for another 5 years and he gets his % at the end of that period. He might be happy to see it as an investment and a foothold on the housing market as well as the right thing for his kids. I think he could force a sale if he wished though but it'd cost him in court fees and wouldn't be a quick process.

The law judges between married and not married people. It’s that simple. And you shared what sort of person he is and what you want out of the split. A solicitor should advise you but you are not married so the law is clear on what you don’t get. It’s not a personal judgement - it’s saying what people do in this type of relationship is pretty much irrelevant.

@LemonTT

We can only assume you jointly own the property and he will have a 50% interest until it is sold. I can’t imagine that he will never want to force a sale. Legally that could be deferred for a period of time if he agreed or a court decided it was in the best interests of the children.

Assume he won’t have to pay the mortgage and that this will fall to you. That is the most likely outcome of such an agreement. Which is fair if you are occupying his share of the property. He will still retain his 50% interest and you need to live with that.

Child maintenance will be subject to whatever is agreed in terms of shared parenting. If 50:50 then you may not get anything. He can also ask for agreement to offset any mortgage payments against CMS.

Basically you are entitled to 50% of the equity and child maintenance if that is payable. If you want to defer sale of the house you probably need to be willing to pay the mortgage in full.

My personal advice would be to not rely on his goodwill, personal circumstances or his job security for your future. With 2 children to support maybe it is better for you to have a stable income now rather than a career change.

What would you do of he met someone else? Who insisted on releasing the equity and with whom he may have children, biological or step children. All this will hit you financially square between the eyes.

Thank you for some actually helpful points.

Yes, we jointly own the house and all equity would split 50/50
Yes, i would very much be reliant on his goodwill for a few years. However if he insisted on not paying the mortgage, it would further damage my earning potential, as i would lose my workspace, and affect the kids, so i wondered if there were legal protections against this. I have heard people say they cant force a sale until kids are 18, but I am now guessing this would only be if I could afford to pay the whole mortgage until then
There is no job i am aware of that i could walk into and earn enough to pay the whole mortgage, without retraining. I did vocational training not a degree for my career. He is not around monday to friday, so whatever job would have to allow for school pick ups and drop offs.
I predict my degree taking 4 years from september when i started, then there is another year of training for the specific job I want.

I am retraining whilst running a business, which is a type out of school clubs, which has been smashed by pandemic closures, but slowly starting to rebuild, all my saving were used for maternity leave (2 in 2 yrs) and during 18 months of forced closures through the pandemic.

He is adament he doesnt want more children, but I am not naive enough to think that he couldnt end up with them, if he chose to date someone younger than we are (and lets face it, they usually do in these types of situaion) So yes, at some point, I will most likely be the one financially screwed...just trying to get a read on how soon!

I have heard people say they cant force a sale until kids are 18, but I am now guessing this would only be if I could afford to pay the whole mortgage until then

There is a lot of misinformation on this site about that topic. A LOT.

What's being described is a Mescher order; however, these are granted as part of a divorce, not the split of an unmarried couple, and yes they rely on one party taking on the full mortgage. They just defer the other party getting their equity. Even in divorces, they have become rarer and rarer, and family court increasingly favours a clean break. So no, in the circumstances you describe, I don't think you would get an order to defer the sale and transfer of equity. There are theoretical legal grounds to claim around needs of the children, but as I (as an amateur) understand it, this tends to be circumstances in which e.g. one of the children has a disability to which the house has been substantially adapted which couldn't easily be replicated, not just that you don't want to move.

Ultimately, splitting usually means accepting a lower quality of life and having to make some hard choices around how you support yourself.

Sorry I didnt see all the repsonse whilst replying to the 2 i did see.

I am in England and yes we have a joint mortgage 50/50, sorry i mixed up the terminology. I didnt protect any part of the deposit, because I knew it would balance out over the years that the children were young and he would be paying more than me,so seemed a bit unfair. Maybe it was foolish of me to not be more cynical. (though personally think it is sad how cynical some people are on these threads, assuming the worst of everyone)

It pretty much seems that to keep the house, he would need to agree to a very generous deal! Sad times. best think very hard on whether i think relationship counselling would get us anywhere we havent already been.

@DarkCorner

"Once you can work out how much money you have to work with, you could try and broker a deal with him on staying there for another 5 years and he gets his % at the end of that period. He might be happy to see it as an investment and a foothold on the housing market as well as the right thing for his kids. I think he could force a sale if he wished though but it'd cost him in court fees and wouldn't be a quick process."

This was the lines of my thinking.
I know Government calculators arent always accurate, but I had a look last night and with what it says he would need to pay for maintainance is correct and if what univeral credit top ups i would get. I could afford to keep the house while I retrained, so long as he were still willing to keep paying his half of the mortgage (knowing he would increase his equity, not just out of the goodness of his heart)

I didnt consider it ridiculously optimistic before, given that I know he is aware that he was the one who damaged our relationship. This thread has made me think that is probably a fools dream.

@TizerorFizz

The law judges between married and not married people. It’s that simple. And you shared what sort of person he is and what you want out of the split. A solicitor should advise you but you are not married so the law is clear on what you don’t get. It’s not a personal judgement - it’s saying what people do in this type of relationship is pretty much irrelevant.

Apologies then, you came across and cynical and judgy, rather than being blunt about the law.

@CadenceandMelody

Sorry I didnt see all the repsonse whilst replying to the 2 i did see.

I am in England and yes we have a joint mortgage 50/50, sorry i mixed up the terminology. I didnt protect any part of the deposit, because I knew it would balance out over the years that the children were young and he would be paying more than me,so seemed a bit unfair. Maybe it was foolish of me to not be more cynical. (though personally think it is sad how cynical some people are on these threads, assuming the worst of everyone)

It pretty much seems that to keep the house, he would need to agree to a very generous deal! Sad times. best think very hard on whether i think relationship counselling would get us anywhere we havent already been.

Thanks for the reply. Don't worry a all about the terminology but it's useful to be clear on it as shared ownership has additional complications. Sorry to be picky again but when you say 50/50 on the mortgage, do you mean 50/50 on the ownership of the house?

As a PP has mentioned there are legal avenues that you could explore to see whether it is possible to delay selling the house or to get an order in favour of the children. If you want to look at these further then look up 'Schedule 1 Children Act' claims e.g. www.majorfamilylaw.co.uk/services/child-and-parental-disputes/schedule-1-children-act/ and s14 ToLATA this explains both I would definitely want legal advice to assess how strong my case was before I relied on either of those routes. Definitely don't assume that either would work for you.

If I were you I would work on the worst case (and probably most realistic) scenario that neither of those routes will work and that he will want to stop paying the mortgage and get his 50% equity out relatively soon. Look at your options in that situation and what your income would look like with changed benefits and maintenance. I would also get legal advice but it may be that negotiating with him will be your best route. Remember that he's just as entitled to live in the house as you are and he's quite likely to want some base near the children for the days when he is not away with work. Be prepared that the best, and possibly only realistic, solution might well be that you sell the house, preserve your credit rating and get somewhere cheaper/rented till your income increases.