What will happen if I use family childcare when its not allowed?

[OccasionalGPHelp]

DD is 7, when she was 3 ExH took me to court for full residency, he fully admitted he didn’t want her to live with him but his mum did and was paying for him to go through court – this was all backed up by letters she sent SS about me demanding full residency for herself and text messages she sent to me telling me I’d “have to learn to live without my daughter as I’d never see her again”.

Because of this ExH was stopped from using any kind of childcare. He lived with his mum at the time, he’s not even allowed to leave her alone with his mum. He no longer lives with his mum but still has contact there due to his own circumstances.

He would only agree to me keeping full residency if I only use paid for childcare, at the time DD was in Nursery right near my house and I had a job that was only 2 days a week so I never imagined not using family would be a problem.

Fast forward 4 years and my DD does an after school activity. It’s usually a night I don’t work but I have a different job now that occasionally asks me to do overtime on that night. If I’m working my mum picks DD up from school, gets her ready for her activity, takes her and then I pick her up.

My solicitor seems to think that the benefits of the activity outweigh the legal position of using family childcare so in court I’d be allowed to use my mum for childcare reasons for this activity. On all the other nights DD is in either ASC or I am not working so pick her up as normal – she occasionally does an extra night in ASC if I work on a night I don’t normally. So far since I got the job in June my mums done this twice, the activity stops during school holidays so it’s twice in about 12 sessions since June.

For added context I don’t live with my mum and apart from when I first split with ExH where I’d spend 1-2 nights a week there for a rest I never have, she absolutely loves being a grandparent but that’s as far as it goes. She says she enjoys handing DD back at the end of the day. Whereas Ex-MIL still asks me if I want to let her “help me” more often and has tried to go to court with me twice herself for 50/50 contact.

CAO gives ExH EOW contact for 1 night.

Is my solicitor right if it did go back to court it would be ruled in my favour?

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

People who are recommending that your mum gets ofsted registered and you pay her are giving very bad advice. If he did decide to take it to court (which he can't, since the order doesn't preclude your mum helping out) it would just look like you were trying to game the system. Never do that in family court proceedings.

Disagree

She wants her mother, loving l with whom he has an existing relationship with.

The op has ensured her mother has got first aid training and complied with the courts. Also you get dbs checked.

So would look good

This is a way

I don't think you are breaking the order at all and I'm surprised your solicitor said it might unless there is other wording we haven't sen. It doesn't forbid you from using unpaid childcare, or spending time with family or friends without your presence. That's not specified at all.

Id just get on with it. If MIL does find out and takes issue, you can refer her to the order that forbids ex from using childcare include her. The fact MIL doesn't see dc more often is because of her relationship with you and threats made to you - and you have freedom of choice over whom your dc spends time with. And the answer is no.

They don't have a leg to stand on.

It’s very common for a child to go to granny’s house once a week for tea, not for childcare but because the grandparents and the child enjoy it!

I’d like to think common sense would prevail here.

I agree with Collaborate.

I think people talking about parties and sleepovers are red herrings tbh. Parties and sleepovers aren’t childcare. Childcare is what you arrange when you are unable to look after your child yourself, usually for work purposes. You’ve got a solicitor who seems to have given you good advice before so just take their advice this time, that’s what they are there for.

Don’t call it childcare. Call it grandma having contact with her grandchild.

Disagree
@Reallyimeanreally2022 how much experience do you have of family courts?

@prh47bridge

I agree with Collaborate.

Listen to this poster, they know what they are talking about

@Collaborate

"Applicant Father will not us any kind of childcare, paid for or otherwise.

Respondent mother may use paid for childcare in the event of work or other needs to which she may require (DDs name) to be cared for"

Seems clear to me that you aren't prevented from using your mum as unpaid carer. Far from it. I'm with your solicitor on this one.

I agree. The order does not prohibit the mother from using childcare, only the father. It specifies that she may use paid childcare but doesn't say she may only use paid childcare.

Both solicitors approved the order and so did the judge. If it did not reflect what was intended it should have been raised then.

Could you pay your mum as you would an ad hoc nanny or babysitter? They would not normally be registered by OFSTED or equivalent.

I think you should use this as an opportunity to remove a ridiculous and controlling clause from your custody arrangement. If his mother can't behave that is an entirely separate issue to how you choose to raise your DD whilst parenting her the vast majority of the time, and there is absolutely now reason this rule should be applied to you.

This is designed by your ex to control YOU so that you can't have a life, including a new partner at some point when you're ready, it is not about your DD.

I can't believe the judge actually complimented you for agreeing to this, well actually I can believe it a misogyny is inherent in our court system.

@jclm

Could you pay your mum as you would an ad hoc nanny or babysitter? They would not normally be registered by OFSTED or equivalent.

There is no need to do this. And in fact, if the order prohibited use of family childcare (which is doesn't) it would still be a breach if you paid a family member.

The order states that you may use paid for childcare. Nowhere does it state that you may not use any kind of unpaid childcare.

Look at what isn’t in the order rather than what is. Iyswim.

@OccasionalGPHelp
Collaborate and PRH47bridge are experienced lawyers. I would take their advice.

Thank you @Collaborate and @prh47bridge you;ve both confirmed basically what my solicitor said.

I also think there is nothing in that order to stop your child visiting your mum. It's just express that you can use paid for childcare but no prohibition on unpaid and I would say it is visiting family anyway.

The order is very badly worded if the intention is to stop tour batshit ex mil having sole contact. It should say that specifically and not refer to childcare as there is an argument it is not childcare it's a family visit for her too. Maybe it's express elsewhere in the order?

You won't be doing anything wrong though as nothing prohibits you using unpaid childcare - and it's the wording of the order that counts not things your ex asked for in the negotiations.

Applicant Father will not us any kind of childcare, paid for or otherwise.
will not

Respondent mother may use paid for childcare in the event of work or other needs to which she may require (DDs name) to be cared for
may

So, mother may do, but doesn't say will not ?

What a bizarre and ridiculous carry on, I can't believe a judge would agree to this.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

What a bizarre and ridiculous carry on, I can't believe a judge would agree to this.

They haven't. Read the wording properly.

The solution is oy your mother, even if just a fiver. She then become a paid childminder (not a Free family childminder), also, if your husband says anything I would say 'yes I agreed to that, however your mother continues to hound me as continues to try and get custody of our child (not HR chil), until I'm satisfied your mother is going to stop with these threats, then I will use what childcare I need to use to ensure our daughter (not your mother's daughter) can continue doing an activity that is beneficial and that she loves.
However, I am more than happy for you to collect our daughter on said activity today, take her to activity, give her tea then being her home. This will give you some 3xtra time with your daughter.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

What a bizarre and ridiculous carry on, I can't believe a judge would agree to this.

No judge would or indeed could.

@HalzTangz

The solution is oy your mother, even if just a fiver. She then become a paid childminder (not a Free family childminder), also, if your husband says anything I would say 'yes I agreed to that, however your mother continues to hound me as continues to try and get custody of our child (not HR chil), until I'm satisfied your mother is going to stop with these threats, then I will use what childcare I need to use to ensure our daughter (not your mother's daughter) can continue doing an activity that is beneficial and that she loves. However, I am more than happy for you to collect our daughter on said activity today, take her to activity, give her tea then being her home. This will give you some 3xtra time with your daughter.

That's not the solution Please RTFT