What will happen if I use family childcare when its not allowed?

[OccasionalGPHelp]

DD is 7, when she was 3 ExH took me to court for full residency, he fully admitted he didn’t want her to live with him but his mum did and was paying for him to go through court – this was all backed up by letters she sent SS about me demanding full residency for herself and text messages she sent to me telling me I’d “have to learn to live without my daughter as I’d never see her again”.

Because of this ExH was stopped from using any kind of childcare. He lived with his mum at the time, he’s not even allowed to leave her alone with his mum. He no longer lives with his mum but still has contact there due to his own circumstances.

He would only agree to me keeping full residency if I only use paid for childcare, at the time DD was in Nursery right near my house and I had a job that was only 2 days a week so I never imagined not using family would be a problem.

Fast forward 4 years and my DD does an after school activity. It’s usually a night I don’t work but I have a different job now that occasionally asks me to do overtime on that night. If I’m working my mum picks DD up from school, gets her ready for her activity, takes her and then I pick her up.

My solicitor seems to think that the benefits of the activity outweigh the legal position of using family childcare so in court I’d be allowed to use my mum for childcare reasons for this activity. On all the other nights DD is in either ASC or I am not working so pick her up as normal – she occasionally does an extra night in ASC if I work on a night I don’t normally. So far since I got the job in June my mums done this twice, the activity stops during school holidays so it’s twice in about 12 sessions since June.

For added context I don’t live with my mum and apart from when I first split with ExH where I’d spend 1-2 nights a week there for a rest I never have, she absolutely loves being a grandparent but that’s as far as it goes. She says she enjoys handing DD back at the end of the day. Whereas Ex-MIL still asks me if I want to let her “help me” more often and has tried to go to court with me twice herself for 50/50 contact.

CAO gives ExH EOW contact for 1 night.

Is my solicitor right if it did go back to court it would be ruled in my favour?

Thank you everyone I do think I might get my solicitor to write a letter to ExH and have an updated parenting plan to go alongside the CAO, just stating whats going on.

I think it reads as he's forbidden from using any form of childcare, but you are permitted to use paid childcare. However it does not forbid you from using unpaid childcare. My interpretation is that it's written to clearly distinguish that only he is forbidden from using childcare, not you.

Out of interest, why is he banned from using all forms of childcare and not just his crazy mother and her relatives?

@Throwntothewolves

I think it reads as he's forbidden from using any form of childcare, but you are permitted to use paid childcare. However it does not forbid you from using unpaid childcare. My interpretation is that it's written to clearly distinguish that only he is forbidden from using childcare, not you.

Out of interest, why is he banned from using all forms of childcare and not just his crazy mother and her relatives?

The cafcass report states that given the chance his mother will alienate DD from me. The judge made the decision about the childcare ruling, he said it's such a short amount of contact anyway that there shouldn't be a need for DD to be away from her father for more than an hour, so no childcare for him.

Could you pay your mum thus making her paid for child care?

Surely it’s a grandmother having her granddaughter for tea…

If she goes every week, whether you are working or not, that’s a family visit, surely?

How determined are you to prevent exMIL from having care of DD?

Could you offer to relax childcare restrictions on both sides under the provisio that if you hear of your exMIL trying to turn DD against you then it reverts back to the previous rules? That would frame it as you doing him a favour (rather than vice versa) and would give an incentive for your exMIL to keep her mouth shut.

Your mum doesn’t have to be registered to pay her, and payment doesn’t have to be monetary, you could pay her with a bottle of wine or bar of chocolate and still be within the spirit of the order.

@MrsPnut

Your mum doesn’t have to be registered to pay her, and payment doesn’t have to be monetary, you could pay her with a bottle of wine or bar of chocolate and still be within the spirit of the order.

I already do this, she gets an extra special christmas and birthday present and I occasionally arrange for a bunch of flowers or a box of chocolates to be sent to her at home.

Yes Judges love people who compromise, and I'm sure at the time it felt to your Solicitor to be a pragmatic compromise to accede to this ridiculous request of your ex. But it's simply not realistic for a working single parent to rely entirely on registered childcare when there is local family who there are absolutely no concerns about. I don't imagine the Judge that congratulated you had any idea about the reality of being a single working parent. Your exMIL sounds like a witch. I am convinced that at this point a court would have no problem with you using family care despite their previous order. Good luck

I think getting clarification would be good. I don’t see that your mum is providing childcare, anymore than if the parent of one of her friends picked her up for a play date and had her for a few hours. That would not be paid for, and they’d likely feed your DD too. That’s visiting. Same as with grandma.

I don’t think the wording intended to mean your DD can only ever be at school, under formal, paid childcare or with you (and the scheduled visit with dad). The court wouldn’t want to limit her life like that.

Why doesn’t your mother get registered?

My friend did just to be able to assist me and meet my ex’s expectations

All she had to do was a first aid and childcare skills course. Online. It was about 5 hours in total if I recall correctly. About £300

The course needs to be ofsted approved

I'm sorry I think you are breaking the rules of the agreement and if your Ex did decide to kick off, it could cause problems.

According to that order you are not prevented from using your mother for childcare.

People who are recommending that your mum gets ofsted registered and you pay her are giving very bad advice. If he did decide to take it to court (which he can't, since the order doesn't preclude your mum helping out) it would just look like you were trying to game the system. Never do that in family court proceedings.

I can't imagine any judge ruling your mother can't pick your child up once a week. What does you ex actually want himself regarding contact? Talk to him and come to a compromise ignoring his mothers demands

@Porfre

I'm sorry I think you are breaking the rules of the agreement and if your Ex did decide to kick off, it could cause problems.

She is not

@gogohm

I can't imagine any judge ruling your mother can't pick your child up once a week. What does you ex actually want himself regarding contact? Talk to him and come to a compromise ignoring his mothers demands

ExH in court asked for a "regular and consistent pattern of contact that works around his work" which translated into EOW for 1 night. That's it, I've offered more and he never takes it not even in school holidays.

You can pay your mum as a babysitter at your house without her being registered (or if she takes her out and about, picks her up etc.)
We use a babysitter who picks up DS at school and takes him to our house (he has SEN and we are working up to getting her to take him out places etc.)

Sorry I forgot to add the babysitter is not registered.

Respondent mother may use paid for childcare in the event of work or other needs to which she may require (DDs name) to be cared for

But your DD spending time with your mother isn't a time you need care for, it's just family time, it's unpaid. Is she not allowed a play date with friends either? It's all "unpaid for childcare" which is mentioned as not allowed for your twatty ex but not not-allowed for you.

Please stop advising her to pay the mum. A) it's not needed, as the order doesn't preclude using mum for help and B) if the order DID preclude using family childcare then paying family to circumvent this would still be breaching the order, and the judge would look unfavourably on anyone who tries to find loopholes to an order they have made.

"Applicant Father will not us any kind of childcare, paid for or otherwise.

Respondent mother may use paid for childcare in the event of work or other needs to which she may require (DDs name) to be cared for"

Seems clear to me that you aren't prevented from using your mum as unpaid carer. Far from it. I'm with your solicitor on this one.

I think that you need to take it back to court.

If my 7yo was at the same activity and I agreed to have her at mine afterwards for no money (just company for my child), you'd be breaking the order?

Doesn't your dd ever get left at a party or a sleepover ?

@BananaPB

I think that you need to take it back to court.

If my 7yo was at the same activity and I agreed to have her at mine afterwards for no money (just company for my child), you'd be breaking the order?

Doesn't your dd ever get left at a party or a sleepover ?

She's not had any parties since before covid apart from family where I'd stay anyway, but she is getting to an age where she'll want to be left so I do need to clarify.