How far is a reasonable distance for DC to travel for weekend contact?

[CarsonsHat]

Could anyone please tell me what is considered a reasonable distance for DCs to travel for EOW contact visits with their parent?

My ExWife has moved away with our children. Since she moved, I have been collecting DCs from their house on a Friday, and delivering them back on a Sunday. ExW doesn't believe she has any responsibility to do any of the travelling. They live too far away to come back to my house for weekends, so we stay in hotels near where they live. I pay for the hotels and all the travel costs.

I'm trying to negotiate an agreement where ExW delivers the DCs a bit closer to where I live so that I don't have to spend all day Friday/Sunday travelling to see them. She argues that it is unreasonable to expect them to travel at all, as they find it too tiring, and she is sticking to her guns and refusing to negotiate. They are 15, 13 and 12.

I'm fairly certain that her position is unfair and that I am within my rights to expect her to undertake some of the travelling, since it was her decision to move away. What I'm not sure about is how far could I reasonably ask DCs to travel on a weekend.

If this goes to court (and its looking likely it will), she will try to argue that it is not in the DCs best interests to do any travelling. I could really do with some examples, or even better some caselaw, to support my position that expecting them to travel 1-2 hours to see their father on a weekend is entirely reasonable.

Can anyone give me some examples of how far their DCs travel for EOW visits?

They can walk from train station? !

Simple then

So start using the train for their return
Start from two hours away then from your place.

Build their confidence to travel independently so they will vote with their feet .
Bye mum
Off to see dad.
Back Tuesday

You could even do part of the train journey with them a couple of times to teach them to do the changes.

Train from my place just isn't an option - it's way too far and involves too many changes. They live in a really inaccessible part of the country.

There are options for them to travel to a city directly, and I could do the same and meet them there though. That is much easier.

Or I could collect them, drive to somewhere approx 2 hours train ride from their home, then send them home on the train on the Sunday. That could work. And she would have no say in the matter I presume?

Well she could take you to court over it I guess!

She could refuse to send them next time if she felt you put them in danger by abandoning them in a random city. Youd be back in court where because of the kids ages etc, I'm not sure how far you are going to get.

You have a solicitor. There would have been a reason why they didnt feel stopping the kids moving would be advisable. They probably have a clearer idea of the whole picture than us ransoms on the internet. You seem to suggest you didnt know until after it happened, did the kids not know or did they keep schtum?

My problem is a few times people have asked what the kids feel.about the prospect of a longer weekly commute. There hasn't really been a answer. If you cant get a court to enforced a change in access location theis really should be your sole concern.

Can I say that you were given poor advice. Your first stop should be other solicitors. Then do the train thing. But find a really good(not necessarily expensive) solicitor.

She has refused to consider it. So all I can do now is repeat that request to the court, if that's what I decide to do

Does she have any health issues that might inpede her travelling? Otherwise proceed with applying to court, she might get a solicitor who advises her to be reasonable or if it goes to court I believe a Judge will order some adjustments. This isn't about her or you...it's about the children's right to see both parents.

How will the children feel about court action? I would always avoid court where possible but if one party refuses any discussion there really isn't any other option.

The reason the solicitor advised we keep the contact separate from the divorce was because they felt the divorce would go smoother if we didn't challenge her on the contact issue at the time.

I have discussed the issue of a longer commute with the kids (it's not weekly - it's EOW). They have said they are fine with it, because they understand the toll it takes on me, and they themselves have said they don't think it's fair that their Mum won't help.

No there are no health issues that impede her travelling. She has a car, she commutes to work - or at least she used to until the lockdown.

I desperately want to avoid court. But I don't know what other option I have - I've written several solicitor's letters to her, and attempted mediation. She refuses to negotiate, and she has responded only once with threats and demands for further restrictions on my time with the children.

This isn't about her or you...it's about the children's right to see both parents.

The problem is, I have maintained contact with the children since she moved them away, by doing all of the travelling. If I hadn't - then I wouldn't have seen them.

So by changing my position now - it could be construed that I'm the one reducing the children's opportunity to see me. I'm the one proposing to change the status quo, because it's so hard on me.

She is arguing therefore that I'm putting extra burden on the children by expecting them to do some travelling to see me.

This is so shitty.

I live in the area my husbands family live. It is about four hours from my parents which sucks, in all honesty. I hadn’t appreciated before we had kids how difficult that would be. But it is what it is

I am resigned to the fact that if DH and I split, I will still need to live here. Because the kids come first and they need a relationship with their dad. I would only move back if he died.

Whilst I do sympathise to a degree, I think your ex is selfish and she’s not acting in the kids’ best interests.

The kids are teens .
They are not under 10.

By the time you got to court the now 16 year old won't be covered
The now 14 year old has a say.
Do what you can now to keep contact
Try train
In two or three years ex won't have a say
The kids sound sensible
Support them to learn to say to ex they have rights to see dad

But do include child arrangements in divorce
Don't avoid it.
Have it written in the divorce

It's ridiculous that she thinks they can't get a train by themselves. Unless your 15 year old has some undisclosed issues s/he can easily manage that and help the two younger ones. (My kids were negotiating trains and the tube system by 12 on their own. We work long hours and it was the only way for them to have any independence).
I would book a hotel 1 hour direct train from their house. Then the first time you can pick them up and take them there (admittedly an even longer journey for you that night) and they can get the train back.
The next time you can send them train tickets so they can do both directions themselves.
Your ex sounds really mean.

@CarsonsHat, the fact that you have tried to maintain contact is positive and shows you are a dedicated father. This isn't a contact issue, it's about the safest and fairest way for the children to see both parents. (They have rights under the Children's Act to see both parents)
You won't be penalised for having done the travelling previously as it's clearly not sustainable.

A court would assess the alternatives and they won't object to the children having to travel some time. That's what many children do.

Don't leave it until they are older. If Ex is blocking public transport and your children are deemed mature enough then a court could make an order for her to take the children to a point of departure.

If you have presented the facts accurately then you are likely to get some adjustment on travel. What is your alternative? Continue with a horrendous travel??

Other than work are there other factors, such as a new relationship that is keeping you in the current area?

Specific issue orders on travel are not unique so Judges are aware and unless there are issues with your Ex travelling (rather than she just doesn't want to) she is unlikely to be able to maintain her current position.

when the 15 year old is 16, can they not get the train to you? or very near you to pick up?

Its an adventure for them, mum puts them on the train 1 side and you are there waiting at the other?

failing that, can you not move to them?

oh and a court order for teens, dont waste your money. Highly unlikely to be enforced

Change job. Your children are more important than your job. Asking your children to commute when you could change job isn't great.

I currently work 60 hours a week when my 2 year old isn't with me and that's tough because she stays in my house 3 nights a week but I make the sacrifices I need to.

You shouldn't have ended up in this pickle.

Yes I have a relationship near my home, and I have family here.

The reason I didn't fight it initially was because I couldn't cope with the battle, my mental health was suffering. I thought it would just be best to suck it up and travel to see them. Plus I didn't want to put them through any more disruption than they had already suffered - I wanted them to settle in their new home, and I wanted to be a part of that and get to know their area.

But that was then, and now they're older, they're happy to travel and I'm knackered.

You could suggest to the 15 year old that she does her post GCSE education at a school or college close to you.

This might mean mother is more willing to be flexible to keep the relationship going (sibling and mother/ child).

@GettingItOutThere

oh and a court order for teens, dont waste your money. Highly unlikely to be enforced

Maybe so under normal circumstances but in this case a judge could and would rule on the specific issue of travelling, payments for travel etc.