Need advice daughter arrested and mental health section

[drinkingwineoutofamug]

Daughter voluntary section last Thursday.
Psychotic breakdown
Assaulted a staff member who was trying to stop my daughter from stabbing herself.
And punch a fellow patient who threw hot tea in her face burning her.
She was discharged yesterday, police outside the mental health unit waiting to arrest her.
She's been charged for crimes she committed while under a section and is up in court tomorrow.
Help!

Hope your wait isn't too long and your daughter gets the proper help she needs

If she has MH problems then she could possibly be sentenced to a MH treatment order which will ensure that she gets some treatment or at least assessment. The MH nurse will be from your local liaison and Diversion team, you could try to ring them for more information. I believe that the NHS England website has single points of contact for each service nationally.

I was hoping there might be a course of action like that CrimeJunkie .I wonder what the chances are ,services so overstretched everywhere .

So very sorry to read this @drinkingwineoutofamug. I too remember your posts about your DD from a few years (and several name changes for me) ago.

Sending you strength and good wishes for today.

@OhThatChicken

So very sorry to read this *@drinkingwineoutofamug*. I too remember your posts about your DD from a few years (and several name changes for me) ago.

Sending you strength and good wishes for today.

Yes I was drinkswineoutofamug back then but for some reason my account closed?? I have updated my phone so had to come back as drinking.

Thank you.
Waiting for the court list which is on line at 10am. Then her gf is going to the court

@CrimeJunkie01 is that the same as a community treatment order I've read about?

Good luck. I've had difficulties getting my mum help when she's been psychotic and a danger to herself. Its such a draining cycle as rach time it might be "it."

It must have been so hard for you finding her. And all the rest 😔. Good luck xx

[quote drinkingwineoutofamug]@CrimeJunkie01 is that the same as a community treatment order I've read about? [/quote]
Yes, that's it they do primary and secondary ones but they aren't rolled out across the whole country yet. It depends where you live.

Can you get a list of the side effects from each of the drugs that she was on before she went into the unit and while she was there. These are all available on line as package leaflets. Most drugs that are given for psychiatric treatment have potential side effects that include mood changes, aggression, tardive psychosis etc. There are also few trials that look at the possible effects of interaction between medications that could lead to an exacerbation of symptoms and side effects.

My point being that her solicitor should submit evidence that her drug treatment could be the cause of her violent outbursts.

I us3d to be a mental health nurse, a section 5(2) is the Drs holding power, she cant have been admitted to hospital under it as you have to be an inpatient to be detained under it, it is an emergency section used to stop a patient from leaving in patient care if there is immediate concern for their safety and that of others
Has she been seen by the consultant in charge of her care, is she to fit

plead?
Has she been offered a responsible adult to stay with her whilst being questioned?

@ChateauMargaux this was all the info we were giving to the solicitor last night. The treatments that she's had in the past 18months, the treatment from her neurologist who changed all her meds.
The mh team who were meant to support her from last discharge, unfortunately COVID hit and she never saw anyone. Except a feeling booklet for her to fill in and send back 😳
I paid privately for her counselling. She got no help whatsoever . She was meant to be under a cpn and never happened .

@x2boys , she was given a independent responsible adult at the police station.
From the info we got off the police she was classed as vulnerable and they were going to assess her mental state.
It's the unit she was in that was the problem.
If she was on a 2:1 how the hell didn't they intervene when she had hot tea thrown at her, why was she allowed in the dining room with no proper supervision
How did they miss when bag searched the can of deodorant she inhaled , in her words to suffocate herself, when she was on watch, they found her collapsed in her room.
When I questioned all of this they stopped speaking to me.

She been bailed instead

My thoughts are with you.

The home treatment team are meant to be visiting daily. Can they refuse now?
If so what would be our next steps for treatment?
This is our next worry .

What happens now, does she live with you or in supported housing. Is anyone raising these concerns with the hospital.

She lives with her gf who is her main carer . I support as well.
Don't think the hospital will speak to me as apparently 2 phone calls in 4 days is harassment and I was blocked by them.

Wow its really bad.

2 phone calls in 4 days is not harassment.

To find her collapsed in her room on a 2-1 is not a 2-1. Its a 0-1.

Shocking failure of care.

I am not making any of this up before anyone comes on and accuses of nhs bashing.
I work for the nhs. I know how dire it is.
We will be asking the questions again , this time in writing.

I expect there will probably be internak investigations into what has happened,
I wouldn't try to contact the ward, but if you need explanation, s, i would try and contact the matron in the first instance.

Some of the advice on this thread is quite right.

A community treatment order is different to a court order that someone was speaking about above. A community treatment order (cto) can only be used immediately following someone being detained on a section 3 which it doesnt sound like your daughter was and is about forced engagement (usually medication) with services. In my experience forensic sections, secure wards as discussed above are very unlikely in cases of individual assaults especially if that person was felt to have capacity at the time.

The difference between the types of section, being informal/voluntary and timings is important although seems petty. The 5/2 you described is an assesment and holding section and can't be used to transfer hospitals etc or enforcing treatmenr. Its literally a way of stopping an individual from leaving while you arrange for a mental health act assesment. Its different if you assault someone under section 3, rather than after or immediately before an assessment that deems you not to be requiring hospital treatment and probably to have a level of insight and capacity. If she wasn't detained further after the 5/2 it means detention under the mental health act wasn't felt necessary

In terms of crisis team visits. They may complete their own risk assesment and make judgements based on that. I would expect they will be concerned about staff safety so may visit in 2's or decline to visit the home address, and ask for visits at their base or virtually

Isn't quite right*

I remember your previous posts. I'm so sorry that you are all going through so much. A police cell in no place for your daughter.

What are 2.1 obs, does that mean she should have had 2 staff with her at all times or is it level 2 which is different to continuous observation and supervision. It doesnt sound a very safe place if patients are able to throw drinks over each other and punch each other.
Do you have to be the named nearest relative or attorney and patient consent to be given information about care and discharge plans.
Can PALS and the CQC help with raising concerns about her care.

It doesnt sound a very safe place if patients are able to throw drinks over each other and punch each other.

Well they are generally not safe places.

Bit outing but when I was under section I say various plates/ fights in dining, as well as someone dislocate a poor girl in a wheelchairs knee.
That was outrageous. We were in a hospital and they took hours to get someone down to relocate it.

I have never felt so unsafe in all my life tbh.

I remember being really ill (there were rats running all over the garden and I think I picked up an infection of somekind as we used to sit out there for fresh air). I couldnt stand up, felt weak, felt like I was literally dying. I really wasnt right. Went to the nurses and they didnt even care one bit. They said your fine, go and lie down. No offer of anything.

I remember going back to my room and lying down in bed and thinking no ones going to check on me, if I die here no ones going to get me any help and wont find me until the morning.

Its a terrifying place.