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Legal matters

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Ex denying child contact

47 replies

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 17:53

Posting on behalf of my partner, who isn’t on Mumsnet, hoping someone can help advise on a legal matter about denial of child contact. Not sure whether to post here or legal - so doing both.

The background: My partner has been divorced since March and separated for about 7 years. The divorce was horrible, took nearly 3 years, was high conflict. He had to take his Ex to court for both finances and child arrangements as she wouldn’t progress matters, sensibly discuss or compromise on anything. Mediation was horrendous. She lied and contradicted herself both in court and in the court statements, which was all online due to Covid). At the start of the divorce she assaulted him and the police were involved.

The FMH has now been sold and his Ex has now moved into a new property with their daughter (who has just turned 15). My partner is about to move to a cheaper area about 80 miles away. Because of the split of finances (he got 30%} and loss of work due to Covid he cannot afford to stay living in the same area- it’s just too expensive.

He is moving to somewhere that is familiar for his daughter, where she used to live prior to the divorce and still has close friends she can see at weekends. He involved his daughter in the relocation decision process and she has been saying positive things about his move - she originally suggested it, in fact.

Earlier this summer he repeatedly emailed his Ex asking when their daughter could come to stay with him during the holidays and she ignored him. He chased the email several times. Then, at short notice, his Ex arranged for her to visit relatives overseas during the weeks he’d originally asked to have her. The last week we had booked to go away on a UK holiday with me and my two children. All along his Ex has made it pretty much impossible for our two families to mix, which is why we don’t live together (yet).

A few weeks ago he wrote is Ex an email explaining that he will be moving away soon and the reasons why (not that he should have to justify this, but for clarity really). He has just has received a reply from her saying that basically she doesn’t approve of him moving away and that she will no longer allow their daughter to stay with him every other weekend.

She says it’s too disruptive for their daughter to be away at weekends during her GCSE year. He had planned to collect her on Friday afternoons and bring her back on Sunday early evening (with him doing all the driving or travelling with her by train).

Unfortunately because of her age the child arrangements court hearing resulted in a list of directions only - not a court order. It says in the directions that he should have contact with his daughter every other weekend and during the school holidays. We are not sure if these directions carry any weight at all.

His Ex is basically denying him contact.

What can he do?

OP posts:
BigGooseyLucy · 28/08/2021 18:12

Can your partner arrange co tact directly with child ?

MrsRobbieHart · 28/08/2021 18:17

Well she is 15 so he can just arrange it with his daughter. He can call her and tell her he will be collecting her every Friday at X time and for her to bring any school books she needs to homework or revision.

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 18:20

Yes - although her Mum usually talks her out of things, or organises a “better” option, like going overseas in the holidays or other activities at weekends.

The worry is that she will now convince their daughter not to stay with him every other weekend or just make it very difficult for her out of guilt or “it’s for your own good due to school work” or whatever.

I think he’s basically reliant on their daughter standing up for herself.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 28/08/2021 18:26

TBH every 3rd or 4th weekend may suit his DD more.

He need to speak to his DD regularly several times per week and arrange things direct with her even if it's picking her up from school and seeing her for the evening or Saturday for the day.

MrsRobbieHart · 28/08/2021 18:27

Why doesn’t he speak directly to his daughter and ask what contact she would like? The contact is for her after all.

Yourstupidityexhaustsme · 28/08/2021 18:29

@MrsRobbieHart

Why doesn’t he speak directly to his daughter and ask what contact she would like? The contact is for her after all.
This.

She’s nearly 16. Old enough to arrange contact herself. Adhere to the court settings and tell her he will do whatever she wants to do, he’ll deal with fall out from mum.

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 18:30

He does speak directly to her. She likes every other weekend and she suggested he move to where he’s going - near her friends.

It was a good plan which suited her.

The problem is what will happen now that her Mum is kicking off.

OP posts:
Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 18:36

As we understand it, if he turns up to collect her as previously discussed, there’s nothing his Ex can do to stop it (short of a shouty showdown out in the street - which she’s done before).

The police won’t be interested in any dramatic calls claiming kidnapping or whatever - as both of them have parental responsibility.

The holidays are trickier due to the overseas trips she organises. We literally have no idea what’s afoot until it happens. Makes planning anything an absolute nightmare.

OP posts:
Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 18:39

I’m glad the advice so far is basically carry on as planned with arrangements between Dad & Daughter.

The problem really is the fallout from his Ex - what (if any) affect that will have. I don’t think she can actually stop him… it will be a horrific tide of abusivse texts, emails and shouty showdowns though.

OP posts:
MrsRobbieHart · 28/08/2021 18:41

The problem is what will happen now that her Mum is kicking off.

He sticks to the arrangement he has made with his daughter, he doesn’t engage with the mother, (no need to) and he turns up when he says he will. Of course sometimes his dd will want to change plans, she is 15 and will have a social life. But parents accommodate that and work around it. That’s what he needs to do.

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 18:44

As for every 3rd or 4th weekend, with respect @RandomMess, you don’t know the personalities involved. She has said she’s happy with every other weekend and this is what’s happened for about 2 years.

OP posts:
Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 18:47

@MrsRobbieHart I agree - but I still have concerns about his daughter being put in the middle of an argument. This has happened on numerous occasions. He sorts out what he wants to do with her and then she talk to her Mum and is talked out of it. That’s the tricky bit.

Hence thinking about whether there’s any other recourse.

OP posts:
Caramellatteplease · 28/08/2021 18:49

Shes 15. Shes big enough and old enough to be voting with her feet. If she isnt with you you need to accept that's her choice. Theres not a lot you can do about it.

Also it's not the first time a child has said whatever makes their life easier to one parent knowing the other parent will fight their battle for them. I dont think you can automatically assume that this comes from Mum.

Doesn't mean it isnt painful for you. If your DP can I would get him to go back to where shes living and visit. As much as possible. Moving away from where your child is living is always a risk when parents are seperate. More so when it's a teen and court is unlikely to make orders

RandomMess · 28/08/2021 18:50

Fair enough but it helps rebut that EOW isn't ok during GCSE year from her Mum plus with the extra travelling and distance it may impact seeing her friends that's all.

Driftingblue · 28/08/2021 18:52

What is the actual travel time. 80 miles could be 80 minutes or it could be several hours?

If it’s the later, it is too far for EOW for a busy teenager. It’s also really unreasonable for him to move that far from his child. Surely there is someplace cheaper he could move that is accessible.

If it’s the former, it’s far from ideal, but it could be manageable. He could take the matter to court, but the problem is that in reality, his daughter is going to be busy and she probably won’t manage to do the trip according to the schedule all the time.

MrsRobbieHart · 28/08/2021 18:53

What sort of recourse could there be really?

Your DP needs to remain committed to his DD, ignoring anything from his ex. (He can block her surely?) if DSD starts refusing to come out of guilt or loyalty then your DP just perseveres with “well I’d really love to see you soon, how about a day out somewhere instead of a whole weekend?” He needs to keep the lines communication between him and his DD open. If she doesn’t come to see him he can FaceTime her, call her, text her regularly to make sure he is still keeping the relationship going. He should be on the contact list for her school so he gets all the emails and attends her parent teacher meetings etc.

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 18:56

But that’s my point - she WAS voting with her feet. This move was planned with her approval. She’s been excited about it.

…and now it’s being threatened because of how her Mum is.

OP posts:
MrsRobbieHart · 28/08/2021 18:58

Has the DD actually refused to come?

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 19:02

It’s 1 hr 30 mins by car or 2 by public transport door to door - and he’s not asking her Mum to help. He has Fridays off so can collect her in the afternoon after school.

I know of many divorced couples who live this distance apart - and further - and make things work. Some even share the transport.

OP posts:
Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 19:03

Nope @MrsRobbieHart she hasn’t refused - we are just anticipating this and trying to think through what he should do about it if her Mum talked her out of seeing him

OP posts:
Ickle37 · 28/08/2021 19:06

She is under 18- could he put a travel ban on her? Just an idea. Not allowed out of thr country unless both parents agree? Its common where i live. Not sure about UK..

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 19:06

Also @RandomMess re: friends - she was living where he’s moving to about 2 years ago and has friends there still. Closer bonds than the kids at her new school. That was the point. She wants to see them at weekends.

OP posts:
MrsRobbieHart · 28/08/2021 19:08

@Zuuuuuuuut

Nope *@MrsRobbieHart* she hasn’t refused - we are just anticipating this and trying to think through what he should do about it if her Mum talked her out of seeing him
I think you’re getting ahead of yourself tbh. The thing you’re trying to react to hasn’t even happened and may not.
MrsRobbieHart · 28/08/2021 19:08

@Ickle37

She is under 18- could he put a travel ban on her? Just an idea. Not allowed out of thr country unless both parents agree? Its common where i live. Not sure about UK..
That would be a shitty thing for a loving parent to do!
Caramellatteplease · 28/08/2021 19:09

But that’s my point - she WAS voting with her feet. This move was planned with her approval.

You're missing the point. Kids lie. Especially when the parents dont get on and they know they will blame the fall out on the other parent.

I'm not saying that is what is happening, but I wouldn't be too sure it isnt either