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Legal matters

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Original poster

Ex denying child contact

47 replies

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 17:53

Posting on behalf of my partner, who isn’t on Mumsnet, hoping someone can help advise on a legal matter about denial of child contact. Not sure whether to post here or legal - so doing both.

The background: My partner has been divorced since March and separated for about 7 years. The divorce was horrible, took nearly 3 years, was high conflict. He had to take his Ex to court for both finances and child arrangements as she wouldn’t progress matters, sensibly discuss or compromise on anything. Mediation was horrendous. She lied and contradicted herself both in court and in the court statements, which was all online due to Covid). At the start of the divorce she assaulted him and the police were involved.

The FMH has now been sold and his Ex has now moved into a new property with their daughter (who has just turned 15). My partner is about to move to a cheaper area about 80 miles away. Because of the split of finances (he got 30%} and loss of work due to Covid he cannot afford to stay living in the same area- it’s just too expensive.

He is moving to somewhere that is familiar for his daughter, where she used to live prior to the divorce and still has close friends she can see at weekends. He involved his daughter in the relocation decision process and she has been saying positive things about his move - she originally suggested it, in fact.

Earlier this summer he repeatedly emailed his Ex asking when their daughter could come to stay with him during the holidays and she ignored him. He chased the email several times. Then, at short notice, his Ex arranged for her to visit relatives overseas during the weeks he’d originally asked to have her. The last week we had booked to go away on a UK holiday with me and my two children. All along his Ex has made it pretty much impossible for our two families to mix, which is why we don’t live together (yet).

A few weeks ago he wrote is Ex an email explaining that he will be moving away soon and the reasons why (not that he should have to justify this, but for clarity really). He has just has received a reply from her saying that basically she doesn’t approve of him moving away and that she will no longer allow their daughter to stay with him every other weekend.

She says it’s too disruptive for their daughter to be away at weekends during her GCSE year. He had planned to collect her on Friday afternoons and bring her back on Sunday early evening (with him doing all the driving or travelling with her by train).

Unfortunately because of her age the child arrangements court hearing resulted in a list of directions only - not a court order. It says in the directions that he should have contact with his daughter every other weekend and during the school holidays. We are not sure if these directions carry any weight at all.

His Ex is basically denying him contact.

What can he do?

OP posts:

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 19:10

@Ickle37 he tried to do that during child arrangements yes - and he withdrew it due to the reaction of his Ex. She went nuts basically. Now she doesn’t even Inform him of trips overseas in advance, let alone ask permission. It’s all secret literally until a few days before.

OP posts:

Fireflygal · 28/08/2021 19:20

@Zuuuuuuuut, so the mum moved away 2 years ago when family house sold? Did your partner stay in the area so has always travelled? Just can't figure logistics if the daughter was in school 80 miles away.

I think your partner might be wise to consider day trips if overnights are an issue. I think there could be some challenges with GCSEs as workload ramps up. All he can do is talk with his daughter as she is old enough to make her own decisions.

RandomMess · 28/08/2021 19:24

Well it is going to be up to his DD to do what she wants.

Can I suggest your DP speaks to the school about getting her support?

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 19:41

OK so the geography is a tad hard to grasp and I’m trying not to be too specific - so as not to out ourselves…

They separated about 7 years ago and then his Ex moved down to a town to near where I live, 80 miles away and put her into a new school. So yes - she moved first. He remained in the FMH with lodgers to make the mortgage affordable. They started divorcing about 3-4 years ago. 2 years ago she moved back into the FMH with very little notice, she changed her school again, and he was forced to move out into rented with not much notice. The FMH is in an expensive area. He’s really struggled financially due to the divorce and then Covid on top.

His daughter made some close friendships while she was living down here which she keeps up online and occasional visits. So the opportunity to spend weekends down here regularly really appeals to her.

OP posts:

Ickle37 · 28/08/2021 19:43

[quote Zuuuuuuuut]@Ickle37 he tried to do that during child arrangements yes - and he withdrew it due to the reaction of his Ex. She went nuts basically. Now she doesn’t even Inform him of trips overseas in advance, let alone ask permission. It’s all secret literally until a few days before.[/quote]
Maybe not much more to be done. We are in similar situation. We have decided against court. It wont get us any where. As teenagers they can do as they please i think and i feel its up to them. Its a short few years to adulthood. I keep telling my dh; he is her dad forever, let the ex win this, because there is a long stretch of time ahead and as long as these kids know their dads love them, it will all come good. What else can we do?

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 19:44

I should add that during her 2 years in secondary back in the FMH area she hasn’t made particularly close friendships. It’s more difficult due to the cross-section of population - more families who culturally don’t mix outside of school. Down here it’s just different.

OP posts:

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 19:48

@Ickle37 yes - I keep saying similar to my DP. She’s growing up fast and observing how the adults around her behave. She loves her Dad and she’s not allowed a relationship with me and my kids because basically her Mum won’t allow it. That can’t possibly last forever. It’s just a shame the next few years will probably be rather bumpy.

OP posts:

RedMarauder · 28/08/2021 19:52

OP your DP can do very little as his daughter is 15.

He needs to remain directly in contact with his child not her mother, his ex. If he does then his daughter may tell him as soon as she is going abroad. He shouldn't block her from going away with her mother unless he doesn't want a good relationship with his daughter.

He also needs to be patient until his daughter is 18, so is an adult, and hopefully more mature.

If her mother, his ex, kicks off about him talking to or contacting their child he need to deal with it as appropriate. In most cases it will just be by ignoring her and not rising to her abuse but in extreme cases, particularly if she tries to threaten or harm non-involved 3rd parties like yourself, he needs to report her to the police.

RandomMess · 28/08/2021 19:54

I guess DD could make weekend plans with the ones where you live and her DM will find that more difficult to argue against and it becomes incidental that she is staying with her Dad.

TBH surprised his DD hasn't voted with her feet to move in with him, perhaps she will for A-levels...?

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 19:58

@RandomMess Well… school support is also a sore subject. During the awful child arrangements court process he spoke to her school pastoral care and then there was massive fallout with his Ex. She didn’t want them involved. He felt that their daughter needed counselling due to the nature of the divorce and the unpleasant stuff she’d witnessed (assault and numerous abusive arguments) . His Ex refused to give permission for counselling. He also asked for this during child arrangements and it wasn’t granted.

OP posts:

MoonahStone · 28/08/2021 20:01

Sorry OP but I think you are underestimating just how independent 15 year olds can be. I'm not saying her DM isn't a nightmare but if DD really wanted to see her Dad on a EOL weekend she would. I agree with the other posters that day trips to see her on some evenings are more likely to suit a teen of that age.

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 20:02

HA @RandomMess 2 days ago she phoned to say she was looking at A Level options down here…
Her Mum will likely try to squash those thoughts, but I think that multiple applications can probably be made as long as one parent is living in the area.

OP posts:

RandomMess · 28/08/2021 20:07

Sounds like in time DSD will escape!

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 20:08

@MoonahStone I really hope you are right and I hope she has the strength to follow through with the weekend visits. A few weeks ago it was excitement and positivity. Hopeful. And we are just worried - hopefully unnecessarily.

It just remains to be seen what happens really. All I can do is support DP.

I’m heartened that nobody has come up with anything plausible that his Ex could do to stop contact. We’ve got as much advice online as we can about the legalities and what the police will or won’t do (won’t basically!).

OP posts:

MoonahStone · 28/08/2021 20:08

[quote Zuuuuuuuut]@RandomMess Well… school support is also a sore subject. During the awful child arrangements court process he spoke to her school pastoral care and then there was massive fallout with his Ex. She didn’t want them involved. He felt that their daughter needed counselling due to the nature of the divorce and the unpleasant stuff she’d witnessed (assault and numerous abusive arguments) . His Ex refused to give permission for counselling. He also asked for this during child arrangements and it wasn’t granted.[/quote]
Does he not have parental responsibility then OP as schools shouldn't need the permission of both parents for things like counselling?

Ickle37 · 28/08/2021 20:10

@MoonahStone

I agree. I can see from this thread you are like me and desperately trying to fix a problem for your dh, as well as bring in dsd to your fold. We tried, and i think it's impossible. Teenagers do as they please, easy life and as long as both parents are around and paying for stuff, probably dont care. They have their own agenda. He should keep in touch on social media/ phone. Make sure she is always invited and be prepared for a no. It will come good in the end. From personal experience- we stopped fanning the fire the ex was building.. just leave her out of it.

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 20:11

@RandomMess
I really hope so! There’s so much more to this story that I could reveal. Poor gal needs some headspace and freedom from stress and to be able to live her own life for starters. She’s under a lot of pressure academically and I do worry about all that. Not my child though so I try to stay out of it.

OP posts:

spongedog · 28/08/2021 20:32

I'm a divorced parent of a teenager in GCSE years. Ex sticks rigidly to the old court order they went to court to impose on all of us. The teenager hates it but they are now beginning to stand for what they want to do.

So your DP will need to learn to flex. His child may now prefer to see him for dinner after school one evening, or Sat evening rather than Fridays. The teenager needs to know that their dad wants to see them- that's important. But certainly from my experience they hate the moving between homes - the transition. So he might need to travel to see them perhaps for only a few hours for dinner.

So dont let your partner become fixed on rigid patterns during term-time.

But the lack of information on overseas trips is not OK. All holiday information should be provided to both parents if either one goes overseas. Was that not covered by the court directions?

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 20:34

@MoonahStone Yes re: parental responsibility, but his Ex basically told their daughter she didn’t need any counselling and that my DP was being ridiculous. There was a huge row and my DP dropped it. I still think she needs support - but maybe in time that will happen? Frankly I think there’s a bit of a time bomb here… I can’t believe anyone can go through this stressful stuff and not need to unpack it all. Who knows when? 18? 42?

OP posts:

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 20:39

@spongedog the child arrangements court hearing was useless… he asked for a parenting plan and use of a shared online diary, regular contact etc - they made no order. The directions recommends every other weekend and that she stays with him for a few weeks during the holidays - that’s all. It’s utterly toothless. We can’t plan anything. So basically we plan holidays to include her IF she’s around ….and she’s never come with us so far.

OP posts:

RandomMess · 28/08/2021 20:45

I think the child arrangement order was the set way it is due to DSDs age at the time I mean she must have been at least 11/12 by then. Unfortunately he should have have gotten the court order years earlier but hindsight is a marvellous thing.

Original poster

Zuuuuuuuut · 28/08/2021 20:55

@RandomMess Yes - the problems started far earlier - he tried direct negotiation, mediation and solicitors letters for nearly two years, then finally resorted to court… By which point the damage had been done. Things have improved slightly lately from a brainwashing point of view - she’s thinking for herself more now. It’s just such a shame we’ve missed 3 years of the kids knowing each other, shared holidays etc. One day she will know what went on.

OP posts:

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